[shenberg]

If you're seriously suggesting that attacking unarmed civilians intentionally, killing parents in front of their children and then kidnapping the children, slaughtering defenseless party-goers, etc. is what I any resistance movement would do, that's ridiculous. If Hamas would only have attacked military targets, there would be no legitimacy to Israel's actions. However, what actually happened was that they attacked plenty of civilian targets, in a premeditated fashion, in areas that are recognized internationally to be part of Israel.

[immibis]

To paraphrase JFK, those who make peaceful resistance impossible make violent resistance inevitable.

[JumpCrisscross]

Something being inevitable is different from it being justified.

Hamas’ and Palestinian Jihad’s violence is a predictable response to Israel’s abandonment of two-party talks and its right wing’s ascendency within its politics. That doesn’t justify gunning down kids at a concert.

Similarly, the IDF levelling much of Gaza in retribution was a predictable repercussion of killing Israeli civilians, including children. That doesn’t make their deaths fair.

[immibis]

If your choices make something inevitable, do you have full rights to complain about what you made inevitable happening?

[JumpCrisscross]

> do you have full rights to complain about what you made inevitable happening?

No, it undermines the complaint’s legitimacy.

That doesn’t mean we must be unsympathetic; but it is a factor. Also, these decisions are often made by individuals within groups. Collective punishment is immoral. It’s also quite likely to produce blowback.

[raxxorraxor]

This would justify the retaliation by Israel to any extend.

[616c]

Perhaps you should read about what Haganah did to the British before the establishment of Israel in 1948.

[reitanqild]

Perhaps you shouldn't use something that happened 75 years ago against someone to justify something someone else did a month ago?

[raxxorraxor]

Or the Arabs that called Jews dogs that should be subjugated 20 years before that? Don't be ridiculous.