[mistermann]

> Computation is substrate independent. I'm not saying neurons and ANN weights and «pulleys and gears» are the same. I'm saying it does not matter because what you perform computation with does not change the results of the computation. If the brain computes, then it doesn't matter what is doing the computation.

It's a tautology. If the substrate did change the computation, then it wouldn't be the computation.

Claims where it isn't possible for you to be incorrect may be less impressive than they seem.

[famouswaffles]

It's not a tautology. That you can go out tomorrow and buy a deluge of computers with different hardware and run the same software without change is exactly a demonstration of substrate independence.

https://www.edge.org/response-detail/27126

[mistermann]

And if one of those computers failed, it wouldn't classify as a (proper) computer.

You can move your pointer anywhere you'd like, it is ultimately tautological. Infinite regress is a bitch lol

Say, have you taken into consideration the role consciousness and culture are playing here? Like this "reality" you are describing, do you know what the actual, biological/scientific source of it is? :) But now I'm kind of cheating, aren't I...I think we're not supposed to say that part out loud! ;)

[FeepingCreature]

There are views where there is an implicit substrate that exists in another layer of reality, ie. dualism. That layer is generally not counted among the substrate. So a computation can be substrate dependent by introducing a non-material cause. (Disclaimer: I don't personally know anyone who believes anything like this, so this may be a bad paraphrasing.)

[mistermann]

If the computation doesn't compute completely and deterministically on all substrates, then it isn't substrate independent though is it?

Human cognition would be a good example of substrate dependent computation I'd think....it even varies per instance of substrate.