[valec]

> This is why there are decoy flares.

..are you serious. chaff/flare is a last-ditch countermeasure for when the missile is completely depleted of energy for final evasive maneuvers, not a first line of defense after a modern missile. against a manpaad there's a higher success rate but even then it's not 100%.

> Anyway, WWII-style antiair guns would easily down a F-35 in a CAS role unless it is so high that its ability to handle that is compromised.

are you under the impression the f-35 is going on strafing runs???

> Things that shoot bullets are the real threat to CAS aircraft. Also, the F-35 has so few shots that it can only fire a fraction of the bullets that the A-10 could fire.

...

> Combine that with reduced accuracy from having to fly higher up and it is almost useless in a CAS role.

i'm not sure how to even respond to this

[ryao]

CAS = Close Air Support, which means being close to the ground.

They did try to replace the A-10 with the F-16, but failed:

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/heres-f-16s-cas-variants-fai...

Apparently, when they get close to the ground, they can be shot down, while the A-10 keeps flying.

[Manuel_D]

No, close air support does not mean being close to the ground. It means engaging targets in close proximity to friendly forces

> In military tactics, close air support (CAS) is defined as aerial warfare actions—often air-to-ground actions such as strafes or airstrikes—by military aircraft against hostile targets in close proximity to friendly forces

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_air_support

With guided munitions and better targeting pods, close air support has shifted to dropping precision munitions from further away to minimize the risk from short range air defenses.

[ryao]

The problem with precision munitions is that you cannot manufacture, transport and drop enough of them to achieve as much as you can with bullets. The country footing the bill is likely to be impoverished by them if used at any large scale. :/

You need to be close to the ground if using bullets.

[Manuel_D]

As I point out in another comment, the cost of a laser guided bomb is $20K [1]. Less than the operational cost of flying the f-16 for one hour [2]. The idea that precision munitions are prohibitively expensive to use for close air support is a fantasy.

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-12_Paveway_II

2. https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a41956551...

[ryao]

Now I think the F-16 is prohibitively expensive. Interestingly, the A-10 costs $19,000 per hour to fly too:

https://www.military.com/equipment/military-aircraft/everyth...

Lets say we have 6 targets and a 2 hour mission. Let us assume that the F-16 and A-10 both cost $20,000 per hour to fly. That would be $160,000 for the F-16. Lets assume the ammunition for the warthog costs $1 each. That would be $40,780 for the A-10.

Oh, and the F-35 costs about $40,000 per hour to fly. For that, the same mission costs $200,000.

> The idea that precision munitions are prohibitively expensive to use for close air support is a fantasy.

Unfortunately, the math does not favor those munitions.

[Manuel_D]

> Lets assume the ammunition for the warthog costs $1 each.

Except they don't don't $1 each. They cost $136 : https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-a-30mm-GAU-8-round-cost

That's not counting wear on the gun.

And if flying low to strafe results in even one additional loss, all those savings are even more than offset.

But more importantly, this whole comparison is moot because for every hour flying a combat mission, a pilot is flying many more hours in training.

[valec]

they're cheaper than replacing a plane and especially its pilot I can assure you that