Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by bigyikes 944 days ago
> Also my gaming PC in the winter. It feels like free compute given I’m heating anyways.

Totally. If it's cold and you have an idle rig, you might as well use it to run a crypto miner before reaching for an actual heater.

3 comments

Assuming you use electric resistive heat. The math changes a bit for gas or heat pumps.
Actual heating systems can be better than 100% efficient, while crypto mining or cinebench or whatever is <100%
How can anything be <100% if producing heat is the goal? Where would the rest of the energy be going?
I’m not sure what they mean about crypto miners or computers (mentioning cinebench), basically all the energy going in should be turned into heat so that should be near enough to 100% efficient. Where else would the energy be going? Sure, there will be a bit of RF power (Wi-Fi and some EMI) and depending on the device, a bit of light (LED indicators, monitor backlight) but that should be tiny compared to the energy that will end up as heat…

In terms of heating systems though, it’s normal for fuel based systems to be <100% because you need to vent exhaust, and a lot of your heat your fuel produced can be rejected away from where you want it with that. For example, older gas boilers might only be 80% efficient or so, and even the much more efficient condensing boilers are still only in the low 90s.

Won't light heat things up by bouncing around anyway?
Yeah as long as it doesn't escape your room, the photons will end up slightly warming _something_ when they get absorbed.
They mean a heat pump. You apply work to transfer heat, getting more inside than if you had just turned the energy into heat directly; the outside gets colder of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump#Principle_of_operati...

Yes, heat pumps are over 100%, but isn't turning the energy into heat directly exactly 100%?
As a random thought, for resistive heating some energy is definitely "lost" as light.
Even light will eventually be absorbed by some surface and become heat.
I think you lose some to RF, photons (with a monitor), sound waves, etc. Some of those losses can be reabsorbed and turned into heat, but some stray photons and radio waves will go out the window, never to return.

The majority does go to heat but you'll never hit the 100% threshold like other methods of heating can meet (or exceed)

Using a cryptominer or GP computer at full tilt for the purpose of making heat is less than 100% efficient, because some of the input power gets used on computing.

A pure resistive heater is also less than 100% efficient, but it's very very close.

Where does the energy "used on computing" go? The power consumption of a CPU is dissipated as heat.
So, I think I understand this view from the thermodynamics sense. First law and all.

But by this construction, are all systems which take energy as input (and do not convert it to another form for storage) de facto 100% efficient?

When we talk about a (very old) furnace being 75% efficient at turning the chemical energy of a fossil fuel into heat energy, is the 25% loss purely combustion byproducts with some inherent chemical energy plus some non-combusted fuel?

In this case for heating, efficiency is how much of the energy input gets converted into heat in the space you're heating.

So for a resistive electric heater, you're dissipating all of the energy as heat (minor quibbles about electromagnetic radiation or status LEDs aside). The same is true for your computer.

Burning hydrocarbons have two main sources of energy loss: incomplete combustion, and energy carried away by exhaust gases. Obviously furnace design influences both of these - the US federal minimum is 78%, but high-end furnaces with all the tricks can get over 90% per https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/furnaces-and-boilers

Heat pumps are the third major category, and they are more than 100% efficient because they are using their energy to steal a larger amount of thermal energy from the outdoors air and move it to inside your home (and much of the electric energy they consume is eventually discharged as heat inside your home as well).

Your computer is not doing work (in the thermodynamic sense) that gets stored anywhere in the computer, and it is not transmitting a significant amount of energy out the Ethernet port either. (It is moving some energy out the port, copper or fiber, but it’s likely receiving an almost equal amount back, and the power is question is negligible.)
I think what you're saying is that Max Planck knew a thing or two.
Huh? Maybe Rolf Landauer.

But this is really just conservation of energy or the first law of thermodynamics, and those predate Planck.

what do you mean?
Heat pumps can provide an “efficiency” of some 300-400%+. The “trick” is that they use electricity to move heat instead of creating heat, which is why heat pumps stop working well under a certain temperature.

They kinda work like a reverse refrigerator. A fridge takes heat out from the inside and moves it to the outside. A heat pump does the opposite.

You’ve completely failed to answer their actual question, it was the claim of less than 100% efficient heating they were asking about…
No. He was replying to this post:

> Actual heating systems can be better than 100% efficient, while crypto mining or cinebench or whatever is <100%.

The intricacies of why a crypto minor is less than 100% efficient when working as a heater are easily deduced, unless you’re precisely the sort of midwit that likes to leave replies such as the one you left.

Heat pumps which use energy to move heat around are more efficient than using energy to generate heat directly.
Won't you damage your GPU faster by doing that?