[kristopolous]

South Africa had a nuclear program, apartheid, and a few interesting property laws. But then they had a regime change and the previous way of thinking have been wiped "from the pages of history"; npt signing in 1991, cwc in 95.

SA split in two forming Namibia in 1990, the same year that the talks to end Apartheid started ... leading to the release of Mandela and the multi-racial 94 elections.

Sure, in California English, I'd be using different idioms for describing that transformation, but that is the whole point here ... sometimes idioms don't translate well and the nuanced connotative punch of a colloquialism can have different impacts in different areas. Some things just don't translate well; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you (although that one feels more like this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/195/treehouse2.jpg/sr=1 ... who's to know?)

I would be in wide support for something similar to Israel, but instead of having say, a non-jewish prime minister, they take a Jewish State loyalty oath; an interesting opposite. Statehood ecumenism is seen as a radical idea in Israeli political discourse.

I'd just like them to be more inclusive and a bit less violent.

[philwelch]

I'm referring to the current "regime" in South Africa (do people ever use that word to describe a state they feel is legitimate?). If you had some kind of agenda and wanted to spin it the way you're spinning Israel, you could say the South African regime is even more deeply rooted in terrorism--Mandela was the founder and leader of the "terrorist organization" MK, and two of the next three successive presidents of South Africa were also members. Just as you point out that the Jewish militants were designated terrorists by the British, MK was designated as a terrorist organization by the South African government as well as the United States. You could even point out that once the "terrorist regime" took over in South Africa, MK was even folded into the regular military.

Of course, no one really says these things about South Africa. People seem to realize that Africans who have suffered from centuries of colonization and repression might be justified in fighting back. People even seem to realize that Ireland can be its own country now, even if they were founded by terrorists who killed British people, and even if some of them tried to engage Germany in a round of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Funny to wonder why people are less understanding with Israel, isn't it?

[berntb]

I think kristopolous got your point, really. That is why he wrote such a long text about why Israel is evil, as an "answer".

[nivertech]

Why, according to you, combined state should have non-Jewish PM is beyond me, giving that PM elections are democratic and even today both Israelis and Jews are majority in the area of former Brittish mandate of Palestine, and even much stronger majority when you talking about de-facto Israeli-controlled land, which excludes Gaza.

I'm supporter of giving Israeli citizenship to all residents of Judea and Samaria (so called West Bank), at least to those who will accept it.

Israel is not a South Africa were minority controlled majority.

Unlike USA or Japan, we do not have discrimination of who can be elected as a PM, except of-course criminal charges.

All your complaints should be directed to Greeks who invented this stupid system called democracy.