[lmm]

> Have you been to China? It's time zone make sense for Beijing and the coast but forces the "Chinese" of Xinjiang to do things at unnatural hours for the convenience of the ruling elite.

I've been there and it was absolutely fine - a lot better than working in the US with its mess of timezones. Sure, the times in Xinjiang are "wrong" but who cares? I'll take getting up at "11AM" or whatever over having people in different offices think the meeting is an hour earlier or later and not finding out everyone was mixed up until it happens.

[aflag]

If they do things at different times, then they effectively live in a different timezone, but with the downside that’s much harder to know when it is that they are going to do things. With time zones you know that businesses will work roughly from 9-10am to 5-6pm that people will normally go to bed around 10pm and will wake up around 7-8am. You can just apply the conversion and know all of that. If there are no time zones, how do you convert from one time to the other?

[lmm]

> If they do things at different times, then they effectively live in a different timezone, but with the downside that’s much harder to know when it is that they are going to do things.

It's not hard to know when you do things where you live. Some places people drive on the left, some places they drive on the right, people in different places people speak different languages, people in different places get up and go to bed at different times. When you go to Xinjiang as an outsider sure the customary times are a bit unusual but they're far from the only unusual thing about going there.

> With time zones you know that businesses will work roughly from 9-10am to 5-6pm that people will normally go to bed around 10pm and will wake up around 7-8am.

Not necessarily - plenty of ways to be caught out if you make that kind of assumption about a place you're not familiar with (e.g. turning up at a business when it's siesta). When going somewhere unfamiliar you're already best off looking up when your hotel/restaurant/etc. opens, and it's easy to do these days.

Timezones maybe made sense when physically going to a different place was more common than having a phone/video meeting with someone in a different place. But nowadays being able to agree on the same instant in time when you're in two different places is more important and we should standardise.

[aflag]

> It's not hard to know when you do things where you live. Some places people drive on the left, some places they drive on the right, people in different places people speak different languages, people in different places get up and go to bed at different times. When you go to Xinjiang as an outsider sure the customary times are a bit unusual but they're far from the only unusual thing about going there.

Sure, it can work. It's just worse. It'll be harder to adapt to local time if you move there or go there to visit than just changing your clock to match local time. You'll need to convert constantly. What's the upside, though?

> Not necessarily - plenty of ways to be caught out if you make that kind of assumption about a place you're not familiar with (e.g. turning up at a business when it's siesta). When going somewhere unfamiliar you're already best off looking up when your hotel/restaurant/etc. opens, and it's easy to do these days.

Sure, you could still get things wrong, but you're suggesting going from a situation where it mostly works, to a situation where this never works.

>Timezones maybe made sense when physically going to a different place was more common than having a phone/video meeting with someone in a different place. But nowadays being able to agree on the same instant in time when you're in two different places is more important and we should standardise.

Timezones are the way we found to standardise once global commerce became a thing. Timezones give you essentially time and location, so it's easier to figure things out when multiple parties are involved.

[lmm]

> Sure, it can work. It's just worse. It'll be harder to adapt to local time if you move there or go there to visit than just changing your clock to match local time. You'll need to convert constantly.

No it isn't? You don't convert anything, you just do things at the times the locals do them. It's really not hard.

> What's the upside, though?

No changing clocks, no scheduling a meeting at the wrong time because you mixed up the timezones, no calling your parents and accidentally waking them up because it's the middle of the night for them.

> Timezones are the way we found to standardise once global commerce became a thing.

In the distant past each village had its own time; once the railways emerged and it was practical to go from place to place in the same day, we standardised time across decent-sized regions. Now that we can talk to people instantly around the world, it's time to contine that process and standardise time everywhere.

[aflag]

> No it isn't? You don't convert anything, you just do things at the times the locals do them. It's really not hard.

Before you get used to it, when you see a time you'll have no idea what time of the day it is. Is it early? Is it late? Is it during lunch time? You need to convert in your head "11am here means midnight where I come from, so that's actually really late". Very easy to forget and make a mistake.

> No changing clocks, no scheduling a meeting at the wrong time because you mixed up the timezones, no calling your parents and accidentally waking them up because it's the middle of the night for them.

huh? How is using a single time going to help with waking something up because it's the middle of the night for them? I'd say it's more likely. If someone is 6 hours behind you, you'll need to keep in mind that their 10am means what would be your 2am. Even though you both call it 10am, you would definitely not want to call them at 10am. If anything, that's more error prone and confusing.

[lmm]

> Before you get used to it, when you see a time you'll have no idea what time of the day it is. Is it early? Is it late? Is it during lunch time?

That's not a real problem, IME. If someone invites you for lunch, it's going to be at lunch time. If someone wants to schedule a meeting, you have to check your calendar anyway.

> You need to convert in your head "11am here means midnight where I come from, so that's actually really late".

No, you don't. Converting in your head is the wrong approach just as it is for languages. Just get used to when you're going to bed and getting up. (And don't use AM/PM - why would you ever do that? Even within a single timezone it only causes confusion)

> How is using a single time going to help with waking something up because it's the middle of the night for them?

Because you never have to add or subtract a time, which is where most mistakes happen.

> If someone is 6 hours behind you, you'll need to keep in mind that their 10am means what would be your 2am. Even though you both call it 10am, you would definitely not want to call them at 10am.

Right, so you need to know when they go to sleep and when they get up, and not call them when they're asleep. But there's no arithmetic to get wrong, there's no risk of adding six hours instead of subtracting six hours or vice versa.