[zeeg]

https://github.com/getsentry

You suggesting we are anything but what we are just makes you look like you have an agenda at best, or foolish at worst.

All you're doing is harming the broader community by arguing about nonsense which is factually proven to be untrue. You came in here trolling as best you could, making false statements without reading or educating yourself on any components. Making statements as if you're a legal expert, as if you're an expert on open source history, on who or what Sentry is or has been.

1. A majority of Sentry's source code permissive open source. This is a fact, and easily verifiable.

2. FOSS is not Open Source. So when you constantly equate the two you simply come off as misinformed.

3. Sentry has continually shown good faith in a variety of activities, including donation of services, financial backing of large projects, financial backing of our dependency graph.

4. We are not rug pulling - we migrated our BUSL-licensed projects to FSL. BUSL is already non-compete source-available, FSL is the same thing but a more aggressive time-delay, and a better license conversion mechanism.

5. There is no "vague legal speak designed to [do anything harmful]". If its vague to you, maybe you should stay away from licensing, or you should start contributing back intead of creating toxicity on internet forums. In fact, the FSL is designed to be _more easily understood_ than prior licenses of its type.

[James_K]

1. Then call yourself "mostly open source" instead of "open source"

2. I know. I type one because it is shorter. As cool of a pedantic ad-hominem as this is, my arguments all hold up when you replace FOSS with open source. So imagine I have done this.

3. Irrelevant.

4. Irrelevant.

5. Irrelevant.

Stop calling everyone who disagrees with you toxic. Stop lying about being open source on your website https://open.sentry.io/.

[zeeg]

Sentry releases a large variety of software. Some of it is licensed under OSS (which, yes, I will be pedantic about, because OSS is one less character than FOSS, and I do not believe in copyleft).

Several of our core services are licensed under the FSL (previously the BUSL). Some of that code was open source a _long_ time ago, some was never open source. Most of our projects are licensed under permissive licenses, including many projects which other companies rely on _to directly compete with us_. When I say "the majority of Sentry is open source" I mean that literally, both with many older versions of our software being more free than any copyleft license would make it, as well as many of our "hard" technologies being open by default.

None of my points are irrelevant beause you're all over this thread suggesting bad faith by Sentry, by our employees, by others in the community. You seem to have an awful lot to say about how harmful Sentry is, and how harmful some of our employees are who have been contributing in significant ways for their entire career. That is definitionally toxic, and exactly why HN has such a bad reputation.

Is the messaging on that URL you found misleading? Yes, and we will improve upon that, but that doesn't make you right. You just continue to look like someone with a grudge who is wildly misinformed, making demands as Anonymous Internet User #67.

[James_K]

> Is the messaging on that URL you found misleading? Yes, and we will improve upon that

Will you improve on the rest of your messaging? For instance, the FSL is not "closer to open source than source available". It is just source available. You seem to view "that URL" as something external to your organisation – a little slip-up in an otherwise clean record – but I see it as a logical continuation of a long process of making yourselves seem as close to open source as possible. Every communication I've seen has been worded to downplay the ways FSL is not open source. You start by calling it a "not OSI approved" license instead of just source available, then you move on to an "eventually open" license then a "mostly open" license then a "more open than not" licence. Dropping the qualification is just the end point of all this. If you had started with the attitude "this isn't open source, we wish it could be but we can't manage that", you would not have eventually told a full blown lie. A lie is just what happens when you keep permitting half-truths. It's the exact reason I'm so pedantic about this and view even the small missteps as so important. You have seen here the direct consequence of them.

Real improvement on this matter will require you to change a lot more than the most obvious failure.

> you're all over this thread suggesting bad faith by Sentry, by our employees, by others in the community. You seem to have an awful lot to say about how harmful Sentry is

I believe that communicating you are open source when you aren't or attempting to create ambiguity in the definition of open source is harmful. It doesn't matter who's doing it. Doing unrelated good deeds isn't an excuse. You could be curing cancer or creating world peace for all I care, I would still insist that you do not associate this source available license with open source. I have accused you of doing this to improve sales, which is bad faith as it may be you had some other reason, but also an important point to make – these kinds of misrepresentation may influence people to pay you money and hence have real stakes. People in this very thread have said they bought your software under the impression it had some of the favourable aspects of open source which are impeded by the FSL.

> That is definitionally toxic, and exactly why HN has such a bad reputation.

Maybe people would reply to you in a less "toxic" manor if you didn't make every attempt possible to insult them and every community they are a part of. Just a passive-aggressive suggestion.

> You just continue to look like someone with a grudge who is wildly misinformed, making demands as Anonymous Internet User #67.

So you admit to being incorrect, and to having lied in a number of aspects, but you still want to keep insulting me? And you think I will come out of this looking bad? Maybe you should apologise for your mistakes instead of demeaning me and and the entirety of the open source community and HN. A simple "you are correct" would have sufficed even if you couldn't manage a "sorry".

[em-bee]

FOSS is not Open Source

sorry, what?

All Free Software licenses are also Open Source licenses. so how can FOSS be not Open Source?

[zeeg]

For clarity, I meant the two terms are not interchangeable.

[em-bee]

well, for most intents and purposes they are interchangeable. there are very few Open Source licenses that can't also be considered Free Software licenses. at worst they are the same in spirit but incompatible for some technicality. or they are much more open, but compatible, so i don't think it is fair to argue that the difference matters.