[jcbrand]

> Go to low-income neighbourhoods, where incomes are closer to those in Europe, and you’ll find tax-inclusive pricing

This is a pretty funny but largely ignorant dig at Europeans.

Every country I've ever been to except the US includes VAT in their prices and I've been to over 30. It's not just a European thing but a world thing, where the US once again is the odd one out.

[JumpCrisscross]

> It's not just a European thing but a world thing, where the US once again is the odd one out

I agree. That doesn’t make it an issue.

It also doesn’t negate that the U.S. is the odd one out on (a) income and (b) local government. Those are the factors, together with less cash use (though this bucket is less exclusive), behind the phenomenon. My life would literally not change in any tangible way for having keeping menus and price stickers up to date; if another store gave me better service for forgoing that work, I’d probably notice that first.

Put another way: I’ve travelled a lot in the world, and I genuinely hadn’t noticed tax-inclusive pricing until a German friend pointed it out in Frankfurt.

[jopsen]

Across Europe you'll find many small countries with similar incomes, less cash use and more transparent pricing.

Transparent pricing is a fundamental necessity for the free market.

More importantly not having puts an additional burden on those with smaller incomes (they most certainly also exist in the US).

[JumpCrisscross]

> you'll find many small countries with similar incomes, less cash use and more transparent pricing

How many tax regimes do they contain within themselves on account of local governments?

I’m not saying America can’t do it. I’m saying we don’t care to. This is literally a non-issue for most Americans. I understand the aesthetic preference. But it’s such a strange hill to die on.

> Transparent pricing is a fundamental necessity for the free market

Transparent pricing doesn’t mean pricing with no math.

Junk fees, on the other hand, are not transparent and not set by the state. (Though I haven’t yet seen the business lobby try to distract by shifting the debate to tax-inclusive pricing, which would be admittedly clever.)

[theoldlove]

> I genuinely hadn’t noticed tax-inclusive pricing until a German friend pointed it out in Frankfurt.

Well, you’re not used to being able to rely on prices being accurate. Surely if you’re used to accurate prices you might be paying more attention if suddenly they’re no longer correct.

[biztos]

A country with an interesting VAT/sales tax is Thailand, where large shops and chains and places in malls will add tax to the final price (and service charge sometimes) while smaller places will not. (I’m talking restaurants, VAT is included in online stores and I’m pretty sure for physical goods.)

I think this is because of the minimum turnover for VAT[0] at least on paper, but there are places obviously making a lot more that just don’t bother with it, so there is probably a lot of adventurous accounting as well.

Lovely place, you should add it to your 30+.

[0]: https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/a-guide-to-taxation-in-th...

[SeanLuke]

> Every country I've ever been to except the US includes VAT in their prices and I've been to over 30. It's not just a European thing but a world thing, where the US once again is the odd one out.

Only for local purchases, at least in Europe. In fact for non-local purchases, the US is much simpler.

I am, right now, in Italy, ordering an item from Germany, and it priced at N euros "plus 19% VAT". Because receiving countries differ in amount of VAT, vendors outside those countries cannot include it in their prices.

But it's "0% VAT" shipping to US -- that is, the primary country where you pay the vendor exactly what's stated is the US.

[cycomanic]

Well the shop you're ordering from is crap. Many of the shops I order from calculate vat based on where you ship to. So what you see is what you pay. I think even if the advertise the wrong VAT you still pay what is on the sticker. How is that not better than having to always add some value yourself whose percentage differs based on where you are atm?

[JumpCrisscross]

> Many of the shops I order from calculate vat based on where you ship to

This is a good illustration of valid trade offs between two cultures. I find it absurd to have to enter my address before even being shown pricing (let alone deciding to purchase). You, on the other hand, prefer all-in pricing.

These are both reasonable takes! They’re just different.

[cycomanic]

But you don't have to put in your address, just your country. For many websites you likely have to do that anyway because you might not speak the default language.

Moreover, most of the websites change the location based on IP addresses anyway.

[JumpCrisscross]

> you don't have to put in your address, just your country

In America, you would. Various municipal and county lines can create separate sales tax obligations based on address. Even barring that, I would find it intrusive and absurd for someone to demand my state of residence prior to even being shown price. (My IP address only loosely correlates with my residence.)

But again, that’s a preference. One most Americans share. Multiple equilibria.

[brewdad]

You keep saying it's a preference. It's not my preference but it's become something I've been conditioned to accept like not being able to know what a medical procedure will cost until after I get the bill. That doesn't make it preferable nor desirable.

[rescbr]

Until the recent explosion on direct online shopping from China, you, the importer, were responsible for collecting import duties/VAT. To avoid tax evasion the customs authorities started requiring import duties to be paid in advance.

The US is one of the counties where the value that is duty free is high, and as I understand it, there’s no tax collection in advance. Most/all purchases will be 0% tax from the vendor side, but you are still responsible for assessing and collecting this tax yourself.

[tpm]

> Because receiving countries differ in amount of VAT, vendors outside those countries cannot include it in their prices.

They can and they do; smaller shops who don't sell as much abroad use their country VAT while larger ones include buyer country VAT. Works fine.

[jcbrand]

VAT isn't charged on goods exported outside of the EU, so it has nothing to do with the US except for the fact that the US isn't part of the EU.

[Gare]

Most large EU-wide online stores just ask you where you're from and calculate VAT accordingly.