[xcv123]

One of the most ridiculous comments I have read about LLMs here.

The ~100 layer deep neural networks infer many levels of features over the text, including the concept of true and false. That is trivial for an LLM.

Are you completely unaware these are based on deep neural networks?

Convolutional Neural Networks don't operate by "look up" of text data.

[user_named]

Okay, so then tell me how does it decide whether it is true or false that Biden is the POTUS?

It's response is not based on facts about the world as it exists, but on the text data it has been trained on. As such, it is not able to determine true or false even if the response in the above example would be correct.

[jeffparsons]

Serious question, in pursuit of understanding where you're coming from: in what way do you think that your own reckoning is fundamentally different to or more "real" than what you're describing above?

I know I don't experience the world as it is, but rather through a whole bunch of different signals I get that give me some hints about what the real world might be. For example, text.

[Guvante]

You understand the concept of true vs false.

LLM does not, that isn't how it works.

You can say the difference is academic but there is a difference.

What is the difference between a real good faker of intelligence and actual intelligence is an open question.

But I will say most AI experts agree that LLM are not artificial general intelligence. It isn't just a lack of training data, they just are not of the category that we mean by that.

[xcv123]

> You understand the concept of true vs false.

> LLM does not, that isn't how it works.

GPT-4 can explain the concept when prompted and can evaluate logic problems better than most human beings can. I would say it has a deeper understanding of "true vs false" than most humans.

I think what you are trying to say is that LLMs are not conscious. Consciousness has no precise universally agreed formal definition, but we all know that LLMs are not conscious.

[weebull]

> GPT-4 can explain the concept when prompted and can evaluate logic problems better than most human beings can. I would say it has a deeper understanding of "true vs false" than most humans.

Sigh

GPT produces output which obeys the patterns it has been trained on for definitions of true and false. It does not understand anything. It is a token manipulation machine. It does it well enough that it convinces you, a walking ape, that it understands. It does not.

[xcv123]

A human is an ape that is obeying patterns that it has been trained on. What is school but a bunch of apes being trained to obey patterns? Some of these apes do well enough to convince you that it understands things. Some apes fully "understand" that flat earth theory is true, or they "understand" that the Apollo moon landings were faked.

You have a subjective philosophical disagreement about what constitutes understanding. That is fine. I clearly understand it is not conscious and that programs do not understand things the way that humans do. We are fundamentally different to LLMs. That is obvious. But you are not making a technical argument here unless you can define "understand" in technical terms. This is a matter of semantics.

> It is a token manipulation machine

Deep learning and machine learning in general is more than token manipulation. They are designed for pattern recognition.

[edflsafoiewq]

In order to affirm something is true, you don't just need to know it, you need to know that you know it. LLMs fundamentally have no self-knowledge.

[xcv123]

> LLMs fundamentally have no self-knowledge

ChatGPT can tell me about itself when prompted. It tells me that it is an LLM. It can tell me about capabilities and limitations. It can describe the algorithms that generate itself. It has deep self knowledge, but is not conscious.

[user_named]

LLMs only knows it's text embeddings. It does not know the real world. Clear?

[xcv123]

Humans and other creatures only know their sensory data input. Therefore they also don't know the real world.

Your eyes and ears perceive a tiny minuscule fraction of what is out there in the real world.

A blind and deaf person must know even less of the real world than an LLM, which can read more than a human can ever read in their lifetime.

[ChatGTP]

It’s giving the most likely answer as opposed to the factual answer?

[xcv123]

> It's response is not based on facts about the world as it exists, but on the text data it has been trained on

How did you find out that Biden was elected if not through language by reading or listening to news? Do you have extra sensory perception? Psychic powers? Do you magically perceive "facts" without any sensory input or communication? Ridiculous.

By the same argument your knowledge is also not based on "facts" about the world, since you only learned about it by reading or listening. Absurd nonsense.

[user_named]

You didn't answer my question ergo you concede that LLMs don't know true or false.

[xcv123]

I did answer your question indirectly. By the reasoning in your argument, you yourself also don't know true or false. Your argument is logically flawed.

Do LLMs know true or false? It depends on how you define "know". By some definitions, they "know true or false" better than humans, as they can explain the concept and solve logic problems better than most humans can. However, by any definition that requires consciousness, they do not know because they are not conscious.

The average person spends a lot of time completely immersed in "false" entertainment. Actors are all liars, pretending to be someone they are not, doing things that didn't really happen, and yet many people are convinced it is all "true" for at least a few minutes.

People also believe crazy things like Flat Earth theory or that the Apollo moon landings were faked.

So LLMs have a conceptual understanding of true/false, strong logical problem solving to evaluate truth or falsity of logical statements, and factual understanding of what is true and false, better than many humans do. But they are not conscious therefore they are not conscious of what is true or false.