[atomicfiredoll]

Same, that plus the persistent harassment. Personally, I'm skeptical that Duo in it's current format is designed to teach. The goal seems to be giving the impression you're learning so you but into micro transactions. I've seen people with multi year steaks who struggle with the target language and clearly would have been better served via another approach.

Maybe it's the course design, maybe the lack of supporting material, or some other weakness in the platform itself. But, I left out of frustration and started building Anki decks so I could have more control. As I'm now on my own, I've had to find supporting materials, which highlighted how poor Duo's explanations can be.

That last part comes down to the course design. Hopefully OP's platform doesn't force designing ineffective courses. This isn't my area of expertise, but I think it's important to recognize that adult learners can have different goals, even within something like learning a language (e.g. speaking, writing, accent, etc.)

[atomicfiredoll]

Just a tangential shower thought on gamification. I found myself skipping Duo on weeknights so I could cram on the weekend, get matched with procrastinators, and ascend the leaderboard easier.

I've heard other reports of people focusing on the game and not their goals. Game designers are aware that humans will "optimize the fun away." In the case of Duo, it seems a group of users will optimize the learning away (regardless of the goals or intention)

[bavarianbob]

I unironically believe that Duolingo is a pacifier that makes you feel good. It's goal is to maximize engagement, not help you learn a language. This is coming from someone who has spent a considerable amount of time on the platform, maxing two different language trees and am currently unable to speak a lick of either of those languages.

[lucb1e]

Yes and no. It is a great pacifier, but my grandma of nearly 90 years old also legitimately understands any english that comes her way much better after doing that on duolingo for a few months. She enjoys it greatly, I do not understand how with all the advertisements and ten types of currencies/points/lives that I cannot make heads or tails of but she likes it.

Especially the animations, she often remarks how cute they are and wants to show us. It's adorable and I'm super happy for her :) though also disappointed that, when I installed duolingo for her, it wasn't the innocent learning app with good UX that I knew it as from like six years earlier

[bavarianbob]

It being a pacifier and it enabling some (read: non-zero) understanding of a language are not mutually exclusive. You exemplified my thesis.

[lucb1e]

Your "thesis" rather sounded like it was exclusive since you said you didn't learn one "lick" after maxing out the available content for two languages, but I'm glad we apparently agree after all

[sasja]

I believe the gamification is a patch for the courses themselves not being engaging enough, if you're intrinsically motivated to learn a language the gamification part can be really off putting. Me and most people I met on my journey of learning Chinese have used Duolingo at some point, but most people seem to feel it was not a great investment of their time. Anki on the other hand has zero gamification and looks really boring, but somehow has better long term retention with serious learners. But then it has its own set of problems.

I'm currently trying to get the best of both worlds by building the app I wish I had while starting learning Chinese. Currently actively looking for partners as well. If anyone that groks language learning is interested in building such a thing do send me an email at [e-mail] and lets talk about it.