[anoxor]

> Electricity during the daytime will be free

> Panels will be cheap as dirt

If you don’t consider the capital of a panel then sure free / cheap as dirt.

Then the sun goes down and the wind doesn’t happen to blow, so you fire up your gas turbine.

[flavius29663]

> If you don’t consider the capital of a panel then sure free / cheap as dirt.

That's what I meant, the capital cost is already so low that you could use them as fence panels. They will only get lower with the looming supply glut.

Look at this monocrystaline (higher eff) panel in china: 15 cents per watt. There are cheaper ones too: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Haitai-Solar-Panel-Pr...

A 400W panel will cost 60 dollars and has a size of 1.8mx1.8m. Per square meter that is $18.52

A generic plastic fence panel from lowe's 6ft by 8ft costs $120 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Freedom-Actual-6-ft-x-7-82-ft-Ready...

price per square meter: $26.87

[timerol]

Your math is off a bit. The panel you linked is 1.722m by 1.134m, or $34 per square meter. It's wild that it's in the same ballpark as a fence panel, though

[flavius29663]

uhh, you're right. I took their first listed dimensions, but if you look at the specs, it's your size. Anyway, same ballpark. I was actually considering using some second hand panels to build a fence, that's how I know.

[jandrese]

Plus inverter costs, plus interconnection costs, plus mounting hardware, plus permitting costs, plus installation labor costs, plus disconnect hardware, etc...

You're glossing over the inherent danger of solar panels in that they are relatively high voltage devices that can't be turned off easily. This means they get saddled with expensive safety regulations. The glorious utopia where you buy a pallet of the things from Wal*Mart with your pocket change and stick them everywhere the sun shines runs into some logistical hurdles.

[flavius29663]

This is blown out of proportion in the US. EU has stronger laws for environment, worker protection, historical buildings protections, you name it. Yet they can easily install solar under 1 dollar per KWh. This is a self inflicted problem created in the US, and the solar roofs became a scam. For a 9KW system, installers can pay 2500 to the sellers/marketers. That is MORE than the cost of panels, this should tell you everything you need to know https://www.quora.com/What-are-commissions-like-for-a-solar-...

> they are relatively high voltage devices

On the contrary, they are low voltage (12V), which makes them more dangerous (because you need higher amps to carry the same amount of energy). To make them safe, you can install inverters closer to the panel, to raise the voltage to 110 or 220, making them much much safer.

> The glorious utopia where you buy a pallet of the things from Wal*Mart with your pocket change and stick them everywhere the sun shines runs into some logistical hurdles.

That can work if you install them as fences, or just on the ground in general. If you install them on rooftops then yeah, you need some serious consideration. The installations are still grossly overpriced, if both EU and Australia can do it under 1USD per Watt, so can the US.

[jandrese]

> On the contrary, they are low voltage (12V), which makes them more dangerous (because you need higher amps to carry the same amount of energy). To make them safe, you can install inverters closer to the panel, to raise the voltage to 110 or 220, making them much much safer.

Lets check a random common panel.

https://www.solar-electric.com/rec-solar-rec400aa-pure-alpha...

Voc: 48.8 Volts

And the original post was talking about cheap installs, so you would string several together to put it on an inverter. You hit high voltages very quickly. Even just 4 panels and you're up to almost 200V at full sun. It's more typical to put 8-12 panels on a string. The voltages hit dangerous levels very quickly.

[flavius29663]

Again, the dangerous part is the intensity, the amps. Look at your panel in the link, it's at more than 9 amps. If you put them in parallel, you will keep the low voltage, but quickly rise the amps, if you have 5 panels in parallel you are at 45 amps!! That can cause the fires, not the voltage.

You want to tie them in series first, to increase the voltage and keep the amps as low as possible. 110V or 220V are not dangerous voltages, that's why houses are wired at these higher volts. People all over the world handle cables carrying 220V with very few issues. If you wired the house at 12V-48V, some wire in the wall would catch on fire every-time you wanted to toast a slice of bread, lol.

[jandrese]

Solar panels are wired in series.

[epistasis]

With battery prices like this, and days to a week of a household's electricity needs parked in the garage?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38304405

Add in the large number of storage options that are coming to market besides lithium ion, from sodium to iron to straight up thermal storage, and we may still have gas turbines on the grid in 20 years but it's unlikely they will generate more than a few percent of a year's electricity.

We are seeing the first disruption of the electricity industry in a loooong time and it's going to upset all other energy processes too, as electrical sources of process heat become cheaper than burning gas or anything else.

Looking at where prices are today misses the picture, look at where they will be in five years or ten years in order to understand our future.