[SamoyedFurFluff]

Idk man, I think this shit should be between the trans person and their doctor. We already pierce the ears and rip the foreskin off babies, and minors can get boob jobs and nose jobs already. Minors get all manner of drugs prescribed. If a doctor thinks some treatment is appropriate for a kid, okay. If it turns out to be medical malpractice we have the court system for that.

Also, I disagree that men in women’s bathrooms is inherently predatory. Frankly, this discriminates against fathers of young children because often one has to bring a daughter into the bathroom or change their infants diaper. Also, the bathroom thing is super weird, like how are you gonna enforce this in a non imposing, non disregarding of boundary way? Already butch women experience harassment for not performing femininity, and there’s news articles where nosy weirdos harass them in bathrooms…

[rengle]

> Also, I disagree that men in women's bathrooms is inherently predatory. Frankly, this discriminates against fathers of young children because often one has to bring a daughter into the bathroom or change their infants diaper.

I don't agree with you on this, in almost all circumstances they should be using the bathroom appropriate for the sex of the adult, which in this case is the male one. If there genuinely is no baby changing facility available that isn't in the ladies' bathroom then for the welfare of the child an exception can be made, but the father needs to check with the women using this space first.

This scenario is very different to the males who feel entitled to use women's spaces whenever they please and for their own satisfaction, rather than to provide for their child as in your example.

> Also, the bathroom thing is super weird, like how are you gonna enforce this in a non imposing, non disregarding of boundary way?

All that's really being asked for is for males to understand that female spaces are not theirs, to voluntarily refrain from entering, and to acknowledge that women have the right to have violators expelled.

The problem is that far too many males truly cannot conceive of the idea of simply respecting the space and boundaries of women. It literally doesn't cross their minds, so they immediately jump to whether or not women can forcibly stop them. The belief seems to be that if a woman cannot enforce this, they may take anything they like from her with impunity.

Perhaps that's not the connotation you intended, at least not consciously, when you wrote 'how are you gonna enforce this'. But I believe this form of male entitlement is what this implies, even with the best of intentions.

[SamoyedFurFluff]

“How are you gonna enforce this when it primarily harasses the women you claim to protect” isn’t a male claim. Way more women who never experienced male puberty and don’t have/never had a cock and balls are sexually harassed about this shit than trans ever are, just because there’s probably 100x more short-haired small-titty chicks than trans women.

Also, frankly banning fathers from protecting their daughters in bathrooms and changing their diapers is discriminatory. There’s nothing predatory about a dad changing his infants diaper and it’s utterly disgusting to portray it as such. This is precisely the gender discrimination we should be fighting against as a civilized society. Women aren’t fragile creatures who cannot see context and understand what is and isn’t a threat to them, and men aren’t inherently dangerous for not even interacting with women just being attentive fathers! This is so insulting to both sexes, I can’t even.

[rengle]

Like I said in my last comment, if you're thinking about female-only spaces only in terms of how women can forcibly stop men from entering, then you're looking at this from the perspective of male entitlement instead of focusing on women's needs. How about instead, the males just respect women's spaces, and stop trying to convert every female-only space into a mixed-sex space? Every time a so-called "trans woman" disrespects the space and boundaries of women for his own selfish pleasures, he's adding to this problem. It really shows how little these men actually understand and empathise with women, when they're exhibiting this dominance behaviour.

Also, some female-only spaces can be and are enforced by authorities with the resources to do so, for example prisons. It is well understood by most people that prisons need to be separated by sex for the safety and dignity of female inmates. The problem is that in some places, women's prisons have been incarcerating men who say they have a "female gender identity" in there too. There have been numerous cases of these men raping, sexually assaulting and even impregnating the women they have been imprisoned with. It is appalling and shows exactly why women need single-sex spaces away from these predators.

> Also, frankly banning fathers from protecting their daughters in bathrooms and changing their diapers is discriminatory. There's nothing predatory about a dad changing his infants diaper and it's utterly disgusting to portray it as such. This is precisely the gender discrimination we should be fighting against as a civilized society.

No, what is needed in this case are baby changing facilities in male and gender-neutral spaces. Not carte blanche access to female-only spaces by men.

Also please actually read my comments before responding. In no way did I say or even imply that a father changing his child's nappy is predatory. I believe it's a good thing when fathers are more involved in child care than is traditionally the case. You are railing against an argument you invented inside your own mind.

[SamoyedFurFluff]

Nah you said Carte Blanche anyone male in such a space is predatory, including dad changing diapers and trans women peeing not talking to anyone. You’re also still not addressing the fundamental fact that women who have never experienced male puberty experience far, far more abuse by other nosey weirdos trying to get into their genitalia just because they don’t perform the sort of femininity demanded to enforce who gets to take a piss in the McDonald’s.

[rengle]

No, this is what I said:

> Exactly, any male who disregards women's boundaries and imposes himself on a female-only space is exhibiting predatory behaviour by ignoring the lack of consent. Those males who call themselves women are no exception to this.

Then it was you who brought up this unlikely scenario:

> I disagree that men in women's bathrooms is inherently predatory. Frankly, this discriminates against fathers of young children because often one has to bring a daughter into the bathroom or change their infants diaper.

To which I replied with the following, consistent with my earlier comment in that the father needs to ensure that if such a rare and urgent scenario should arise, he receives consent from the women present and to ensure he isn't disregarding boundaries and imposing himself:

> I don't agree with you on this, in almost all circumstances they should be using the bathroom appropriate for the sex of the adult, which in this case is the male one. If there genuinely is no baby changing facility available that isn't in the ladies' bathroom then for the welfare of the child an exception can be made, but the father needs to check with the women using this space first.

> This scenario is very different to the males who feel entitled to use women's spaces whenever they please and for their own satisfaction, rather than to provide for their child as in your example.

Of course the best option is that baby changing facilities are provided in unisex or male-only spaces too, which is often the case these days.

As for this part of your comment:

> You're also still not addressing the fundamental fact that women who have never experienced male puberty experience far, far more abuse by other nosey weirdos trying to get into their genitalia just because they don't perform the sort of femininity demanded to enforce who gets to take a piss in the McDonald's.

Firstly, there are no women who have experienced male puberty. The people who experience male puberty are boys and then men.

Secondly, this isn't a "fundamental fact", it's something you're claiming because you want to try to justify the invasion of women's spaces by men who pretend to be women.

Thirdly, I see you're still narrowly focusing on bathrooms and are ignoring the growing problem of these men demanding and gaining access to other spaces that were female-only up until their incursion. Any comment on, as I discussed above, that in some jurisdictions these men are being incarcerated in the female prison estate, and how harmful this has been for women prisoners?