[zbrozek]

I got my first mac through work this year and I hate the UI. It's very nice that it doesn't come with as much bloat (but it does still come it, e.g., Apple news, music, etc). I absolutely hate the window management. Inconsistent behavior on double click of the title bar (Chrome maximizes and Slack doesn't) is annoying. Lack of snapping and tiling (a la super-arrow) drives me nuts. That command-tab will switch me to a different workspace completely defeats the purpose of having a workspace at all. And I also hate the nonstandard keyboard layout and shortcuts.

Yes, you can install a dozen little extra utilities to customize your way out of most of these things... but I'm not going to. I use systems usually quite-close to stock because of how often I'm using not-my-system or how often the system is reimaged or whatever. Also it's a corporate machine and I can't be bothered to see if each and every bodge-app is permitted by security policy.

The hardware is very nice, however. I would totally buy a MBP personally if I could run Windows or Fedora on it, and swap the keyboard for something sensible.

[cmcaleer]

> I got my first mac through work this year and I hate the UI.

I am baffled by whoever thought having icons leap in the toolbar as a default behaviour was an OK thing to do. Drives me crazy when I use a Mac other than mine. I have lots of little issues with the UX. Play button opening Apple Music -- ahh! Running unsigned apps is easy but I always get caught out by the right click thing.

> you can install a dozen little extra utilities to customize your way out of most of these things

Usually paid for too. Using mouse on Mac feels absolutely awful to me without Smooze.

I wish there was a better laptop on the market, but despite the compromises my MBP is the best laptop I've ever owned it's not even close. Just like my iPhone, I think it's a brilliant device despite Apple being, well, Apple.

[blindhippo]

I gave up trying to use a mouse on OSX years ago (the acceleration curve causes physical pain for me) and leaned into what Apple did right: trackpads. I got an apple trackpad for my desk setup, and otherwise use the built in trackpad on the macbook.

Doesn't help for those who need a mouse device (cad/design/photo-editing, etc), but for what I use it for (software dev/ops work), it's great. Trackpads in a windows ecosystem feel absolutely horrendous to me, so I just use mice there lol.

[cmcaleer]

God bless the trackpad on Macbooks. Some Windows laptops come close but none match it.

Thumbs up for Smooze if you're looking to try and have a somewhat usable mouse experience. It's 20 bucks because of course it is, why wouldn't a tool to allow a need that basic cost money? It does have a trial. Maybe another commenter can recommend something free but when I was looking a couple years ago it was the only thing that did it right.

[OmahaBoy69]

> Maybe another commenter can recommend something free

https://linearmouse.app/

[cyann]

Excellent user experience using a Logitech MX Master 3S with Mos and ScrollReverser.

https://mos.caldis.me/

https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/

[vladvasiliu]

YMMV, but I've found that using very high resolution (~3000 DPI) "gaming" mice works very well under MacOS. This works well with my tendency to not move my hand very much when mousing, but still expect the pointer to go to the other side of the screen. Plus, some of those mice have on-board memory which allows customizing their buttons without having some crappy app running in the background (Logitech G vs normal Logitech).

Using a regular mouse does feel like trying to push a string through sand.

[beebeepka]

So, that's why my mouse feels totally fine on macOS. Gaming peripherals the win

[toyg]

Trackpads are terrible for your wrist though.

[2Gkashmiri]

i am not a mac guy, saw a friend use m1. why does everything have to be trial/paid?

i use linux and everyone is expected to be a freeloader and yet people constantly keep on churning our good/bad software for free because its the whole idea of "you scratch my back, i will scratch yours" and "i am doing this for fun. how about you have a problem so you fix this yourself and help everyone" type camaraderie which is opposite in osx where the idea is "you are rich enough, why wont you pay"

[eviks]

The major obvious factor is because the devs can earn money doing that unlike with Linux, but there are also things like: because it's usually not free to make those apps (mac's developer subscription, without which it makes harder for the users to install apps)

[d357r0y3r]

Try Rectangle: https://rectangleapp.com/

One of the first things I install on a new MBP.

[vladvasiliu]

> And I also hate the nonstandard keyboard layout and shortcuts.

I think you may grow to like them, especially if you routinely type in languages other than your layout.

For example, I use a physical QWERTY layout, but often type in French (the latter is an abomination for programming and similar). I can very easily use dead keys to create the accents. I type as quickly in French on a Mac QWERTY as I used to on a regular AZERTY (it still requires dead keys for some characters).

If you use terminals, now your copy/paste shortcuts stay the same across apps. Trying to copy something without paying attention won't quit your running program / return you to the end of the history.

At first, I also found it a bit weird, but it has grown on me so much that now that I don't use a mac anymore, I try to bring it with me. One of the reasons why I hate using Windows at work, is that I can't get it to have a fully mac-like keyboard. I'm pretty close, but it insists on having the right alt as AltGr, which is a PITA, especially since it can't be moved. On Linux, the Mac layout works perfectly, at least on X11.

[dontlaugh]

I feel the same.

I like the macOS keyboard handling so much I even swap Control and Meta on Windows machines. Not the same, but a bit less annoying.

[zbrozek]

Why do you do that swap? I dislike tucking my thumb to copy and paste, but could imagine someone with different hand geometry having different preferences.

[weikju]

There’s a setting to enable/disable switching to a space with an app’s window when switching to an app. That should help with one of your issues.

Kb shortcuts are standard - for a Mac ;). Heck in most apps you can even use standard readline shortcuts like ctrl-e for end of line, ctrl-a for start of line , ctrl-n and -p for next and previous etc. Same as in emacs or in a terminal window.

[jwells89]

> Inconsistent behavior on double click of the title bar (Chrome maximizes and Slack doesn't) is annoying.

This is actually on third party app devs, not apple. Note that double-clicking the titlebar works the same in stock apps, as well as in most mac-only native apps.

Cross-platform apps like Slack often hide the native titlebar and draw their own which doesn’t implement all the native behaviors or even try to mimic them. Papercuts like this are part of why Mac users are more likely to be discontent with cross-platform apps.

For many Electron apps a decent work around is to install them as PWAs, which can be done with both Safari (File > Add to Dock…) or your preferred Chrome-cousin. Those draw proper titlebars.

[bigstrat2003]

The UI is the single biggest reason why I will never own a Mac. I cannot stand having a single menu bar for the entire system, and I'm not about to use an OS which forces it on me. I do at least appreciate that Apple tries to make good products for their customers (even if they are overpriced), but I hate their GUI design and there's no real way around that.

[eviks]

> Yes, you can install a dozen little extra utilities to customize your way out of most of these things... but I'm not going to

There is no OS where this approach solves UI hate, installing those extra utilities is the only way out

> how often the system is reimaged or whatever

there is another utility that restores your apps/configs, but of course, a no-utility policy breaks that