[MadnessASAP]

Failures, particularly fires, around the engines and wings are either dealt with in minutes[1] or the state of the window becomes no longer relevant.

[1] The complete list of options are typically starvation, suppression, evacuation. Apply in that order and do so quickly.

[Terr_]

> or else the state of the window becomes no longer relevant.

I appreciate this, er, implicit understatement.

[qeternity]

Rapid unscheduled disassembly.

[jacquesm]

Shouldn't there be an emergency landing somewhere in the middle there?

[MadnessASAP]

There are incredibly rare exceptions but almost universally a uncontrolled fire on a aircraft in flight is not a survivable experience. I had a tremendous fear of flying in my younger years. I dealt with it through exposure and becoming a technician in the air force. Fire is the only thing that brings that fear back. Aircraft commonly survive (land) incredibly violent stresses, partial structural failures, widespread system failures, and explosions. They do not survive persistent fires.

So no, if there is a fire, those 3 steps are your options regardless of the aircraft's location or altitude.

[jacquesm]

To quote George Carlin: "The safety lecture continues… “In the unlikely event of a water landing…” … … well what exactly is… a water landing? Am I mistaken or does this sound somewhat similar to CRASHING INTO THE OCEAN?!!! “…your seat cushion can be used as a floatation device.” Well imagine that: my seat cushion… just what I need… to float around the North Atlantic for several days, clinging to a pillow full of beer farts!"

Interesting reversal: in my younger years I flew all over the planet, I can't even begin to estimate on how many flights I've been. And then, a couple of really bad flights in succession and I actually find it very difficult to contemplate flying again even if I know that statistically it's pretty safe and I'm exaggerating. Rationality only goes so far, apparently if you scare the lizard good a couple of times he remembers.

[MadnessASAP]

For me the cure came from the sense of control provided by knowing everything that was going on the plane. All the sounds, sensations, and movements I put a what and why too. That and the literal control I get from being one of the people responsible for keeping that pile of parts in the air. It's some small comfort to think that if I'm ever in an crash, I could've done something about it rather then having died through no fault or inaction of my own.

Also it gives me something to do other then sitting in an airport terminal because the plane is delayed due to maintenance issues.

[jacquesm]

Yes, I can see how that would give you a better feeling. But I don't have your expertise so for me it feels like I'm giving over control over my life to people who presumably know what they are doing. Which is fine as long as that picture gets reinforced but it breaks when you get evidence to the contrary.

[MadnessASAP]

I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but it's come rather apparent these days that the person in row 0,regardless of their skill, is pretty much the least reliable part of the system.

Except for the toaster, the bloody toaster is always acting up.

[krisoft]

> what exactly is… a water landing? Am I mistaken or does this sound somewhat similar to CRASHING INTO THE OCEAN

What a silly thing to say. First of all not all water is ocean. Second the speeds and forces involved in a landing and in a crashing are very different.

Here is how an aftermath of a water landing looks like: https://youtu.be/x02cA6eamq0?si=-dQsJm353WySpv0Z

As you can see the airplane is designed to float.

[marcosdumay]

I wonder how many terrestrial planes ever landed on water leaving at least one survivor.

There is that one case that made the news worldwide for months because of how hard it is... and I never heard about any other one.

[jacquesm]

Many, actually:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_landing

[marcosdumay]

Oh, cool. If I counted that right, there has been 4 unplanned landings by large planes, and a bit more than that of planed landings. But smaller (and slower) planes do that all the time.

The part about smaller planes makes a lot of sense.

[ceejayoz]

Landing is just a necessary part of the evacuation step.

[mulmen]

It’s definitely not necessary. Parachutes exist.

[ceejayoz]

I think it's pretty clear the context is commercial air travel here.

"Starvation, suppression, and evacuation" needs neither "emergency landing" nor "don a parachute" to be added to it to be understandable. Both are just prerequisite steps to the "evacuation" mitigation.

[jacquesm]

Well, in a military context 'evacuation' might be 'pull the eject lever', but in a commercial aircraft the landing bit isn't optional because there are no ejection seats and there isn't a way to exit the plane other than after getting it on the ground (or the water) in one way or another.

That prerequisite step may never be completed, due to the aircraft being destroyed before it can be evacuated.

[ssnistfajen]

If an emergency landing was achieved it would imply the engine/wing fire was in a containable state.