[tchaffee]

I like playing video games with a computer. I also like playing music with a computer.

I've learned far quicker playing chess against an AI than I would have playing against humans. And yet I still really enjoy playing against humans too. In fact the experience playing against humans is richer thanks to a deeper understanding of the game that came from AI.

Your argument is along the same lines as arguing electric guitar is lifeless when compared to the non-machine acoustic version. When what really matters is who is operating the machine. AI is just another tool. It will be used in insensitive mechanical ways and in ways that deeply enrich our lives.

[sesm]

I have hard time believing that you can learn quicker playing chess against AI. Humans can explain ideas behind their moves, their long term plans and their position evaluation. That what chess coaches will explain you and that's what you can read in chess books. Computer has hard time explaining his moves, has no notion of long-term plan and it's position evaluation is often useless for beginner or intermediate chess players (like evaluating position as a draw while one side has to do a series of very precise moves to achieve equality, which is a clearly lost position for a non-grandmaster player).

[tchaffee]

Some of what you are claiming is false. Most chess AIs for example can identify almost every opening move in existence. Something no human can do. That's a type of position evaluation, and a good starting point for further research. No free coach is going to sit for 4 hours straight, 5 days a week, playing thousands of games exploring variations of a particular opening. That kind of self-study will definitely help you become a better player. Humans just aren't willing to be that opponent, especially to a beginner and not for free.

Also I'm not claiming you can learn quicker by exclusively using AI. I'm claiming you can learn quicker by adding it to your set of tools. Human coaches and books are other tools you can or should use.

Even the some of the best chess players in the world are now using AI opponents to explore new ideas.

[sesm]

Chess engines are very important for grandmasters, for sure. But for beginners they are mostly useless. That’s what I was arguing about.

Regarding openings - the best place to learn are books/studies/even Wikipedia articles that explain the ideas behind the major moves and variations, which chess engines don’t do. Also, a human can explain which opening are good to play at your skill level and which are not.

Regarding free coaches, playing with a friend/relative over the board and discussing the game afterwards has a similar effect.

[tchaffee]

Chess engines aren't useless for beginners. That's an empty claim and is as easily dismissed as it was made.

I gave a list of reasons why a chess engine is good for learning. Refute those as a start.

Here's another reason: an AI engine will point out illegal moves, and patiently over hundreds of games in your home. A free coach isn't going to come to your house and do that.

Neither will most friends or relatives. People get bored and move on.

[phatskat]

> I have hard time believing that you can learn quicker playing chess against AI.

I’d be more inclined to agree if everyone learned the same way, but we don’t. What works for you may not work as well for others.

For me and music, for example, I learn best by hearing and playing by ear. If I want to learn a song, it’s usually a good bit of time with me playing and rewinding, pausing, playing, pausing, rewinding, etc. I can read sheet music, but the process is woefully slow and not fun for my brain. I could watch someone teach me each part, but that also sounds boring, and I feel I learn better through my own method of trial and error because my brain has to work out the nuances - “was that a hammer-on? Was there a slide transition there? That sounds like a permutation of an earlier chord instead of a direct reuse of it! Etc”

Being able to play against AI may be just as valuable for person A to learn as playing against a human would be for person B. To suggest one is strictly superior to the other, in all cases, is very black and white thinking that doesn’t fit how people work.

[newshackr]

You can play with the computer forever unlike with a human

[FartyMcFarter]

You can play with humans forever online. There isn't a lack of people willing to play.

[tchaffee]

Will those players analyze and rate your moves like a chess engine will? Will they name common opening strategies for you so you can research them in books? Will they let you take back several moves to explore different lines?

[darkerside]

AI can do that to a game you play against humans.

[tchaffee]

Yeah, I've used that a lot. Yet another example of how AI engines can help you learn quicker.

[butlike]

Don't underestimate a well-timed "Eureka!" moment in terms of learning.