[anaisbetts]

Yep. This phenomena isn't generally true outside of the US and it is 100% because of the abuse that is iMessage aka Blue Bubble Bullying. Having a phone that doesn't open iMessage is basically a guarantee in the US that you will be excluded and ridiculed if you're a teen, and tbh even as an adult, not having iMessage can result in being excluded in the workplace as well as socially.

To be honest, Apple should be ashamed of themselves for literally inventing whole-cloth a new form of Discrimination. "Intersection of Humanities and Technology" sure does take on a whole new meaning in that light.

[sib]

I think you have your timeline wrong. Android phones were seen as "not cool" in the US before Blue Bubble was a thing. iPhones have been aspirational and cool since shortly after their launch.

(Source, worked in mobile / mobile-related industries for >15 years in the US, worked at Google in Android division for part of that time.)

IMHO: Apple invented and invested in creating a great product (iMessage / Messages) - far better than what was out there - and continued to invest in improving it. No one who calls themself a "hacker" and wants to "build something people love" should shame them for doing so.

[pseudalopex]

Anyone who calls themself a hacker should shame lock in strategies and barriers to interoperability as much as they want.

[sib]

You can't truly interoperate with products that don't support all the features in the "originating" product.

For example, iMessages long had full-resolution media support, encryption for multi-party messaging, and with addressing not tied to a phone number, which many other messaging products did not.

As a user, I absolutely do not want a government forcing the vendor of the product that I have purchased to enshittify it by removing or breaking good features.

And, if that government does force some sort of limited "interoperability" that causes a downgraded experience (e.g., no encryption, reduced quality media), then the "originating" app should absolutely indicate those issues and concerns to its users. I'm sure that there are lots of governments that would love to break Messages' encryption without Apple being able to tell users about it. And there we are with the difference between Blue Bubbles and Green Bubbles.

If people want to use WhatsApp or SMS or WeChat or one of 15 different Google messaging products, they should do that. But don't f-up a product that works great for those who choose to use it.

[pseudalopex]

Nothing prevented Apple to release an iMessage Android app with all the features. They chose not to as a lock in strategy.

No one suggested forcing Apple to remove features. Reducing media quality would solve no complaints. And your comment about encryption made no sense. Apple devices trust the keys sent by Apple. A government could order Apple to break iMessage encryption without telling users now. The Signal protocol is open and not vulnerable in this way.

[manuelabeledo]

I think this take is a bit ridiculous.

Apple didn't invent a "new form of discrimination", they have a product that works, and is tied to their ecosystem, nothing else. It is not even an exclusive technology, there are a hundred other messaging apps out there, and at least a handful of them are more popular than iMessage.

> Having a phone that doesn't open iMessage is basically a guarantee in the US that you will be excluded and ridiculed if you're a teen, and tbh even as an adult, not having iMessage can result in being excluded in the workplace as well as socially.

I can't speak about teens, but I haven't met a single adult in the US, so arrogant and petty, that they would exclude you from their social circle just because you don't own an iPhone.

And if you actually have encountered this, perhaps it is time for you to look for new friends.

[joshmanders]

These people read some Onion like BuzzFeed article about a made up story along the lines of this and absolutely refuse to see how ridiculous it sounds and start spreading it, and others who have an axe to grind with Apple then feel validated by the idea of it and spread it themselves.

Literally nobody I know who has an iPhone truly cares what color the chat messages is... We do however notice the green message and jokingly go "oh an Android user eh?" and give a little shit for it, but nobody would ever actually ostracize someone from a group for being Android.

These people are delusional.

[Weebs]

I've been left out of the loop by people before because of it. It's not a big deal but it's annoying to have it come up all the time

[joshmanders]

I'm confused at how you get left out of the loop. Do they just not include you in group chats?

I have a group chat right now with my sister who is also iPhone and my mom who is Android, we all have zero issues in group chat.

Only thing that changed is the group chat goes from being iMessage blue bubbles to just all green chats due to the one Android user.

Everything else is the same. Well when my sister like reacts to our messages because she doesn't quite realize that it's not a group iMessage but just a group SMS then iMessage sends `<sister> liked "<message she liked>"` texts to the rest of us but shows the like reaction to her.

[etchalon]

I fail to see how it's all that different from places where you have to use WhatsApp or WeChat or Telegram to "be cool".

At least iMessage is somewhat compatible with Android. You can't message someone in WhatsApp from Telegram.

[standardUser]

The key difference is that anyone can install WhatsApp or Telegram. An Android user cannot use Apple messaging. It's the only scenario where the only solution is buying a $1000 device (versus downloading a free app to your existing device).

[etchalon]

You can buy a new iPhone SE for $400 bucks.

[simbolit]

>the only solution is buying a $1000 device

I did a quick spot check on eBay for "iphone se 2020 unlocked", and you can get one from $130 shipped.

[anaisbetts]

You realize that the cost of completely switching your phone and ecosystem is not limited to the monetary price of the hardware. Right?

Especially versus the cost (monetary or otherwise) of installing another chat app?

[simbolit]

I don't see how this is relevant. My parent comment said "the only solution is spending $1000" (aka buying an iPhone 15 pro), and I wanted to point out that this is ridiculous.

But even if it were relevant, what massive costs do you incur when you switch from your Google phone to an iPhone? Two hours set-up, if you are really slow? Anything else?

Also, if that is too much for you, you can keep your Google phone, I honestly couldn't care less what phone you use. I just wanted to point out that "you have to buy an iPhone 15 pro to get blue bubbles" is bullshit.

As to your point about non-monetary costs, I'd gladly spent $130 to avoid installing any meta app on my phone.

[standardUser]

I'm assuming a person would want their new phone to be the current model, likely financed by their cell provider, as is our custom. Not some referubed last-gen from an eBay seller.

[simbolit]

"as is our custom" had me on the floor laughing

[subtypefiddler]

Anecdotal evidence from France and UK doesn't agree with "isn't generally true outside of the US". When a diverse group of people is involved it's way more likely to use WhatsApp (or Signal to a lesser extent) outside the US, but iMessage is still used a lot IME.

I don't think it's a new form of discrimination either, brand awareness and social position via brands is incredibly prevalent in teenagers and has been for a while.

[sdfghswe]

I'm in the UK, I don't know anyone that doesn't have WhatsApp.

[timeon]

> This phenomena isn't generally true outside of the US and it is 100% because of the abuse that is iMessage aka Blue Bubble Bullying.

Can you explain the relation here? As far as I know iMessage is available also outside US. If iMessage was 100% the cause it would be the same outside US as well.

So I think that 'Blue Bubble Bullying' in US is because iPhone is more popular there - not other way around.

[standardUser]

The really messed up part is, you aren't exaggerating even a little.

[vbeeaz]

It isn't true outside of the US because salaries outside the US make iphones luxury items.

An iphone costs 1 month of salary in Spain and Spain has the highest youth unemployment rate of the EU (and those who are employed most likely make peanuts). How are young people going to afford it? If an iphone cost 200€, how many people would even use android to begin with?

Now extrapolate that to the rest of the world.

[manuelabeledo]

> An iphone costs 1 month of salary in Spain...

Of minimum salary, although there is the iPhone SE, which is ~500 euro.

Regardless, it always baffles me how people skimps on stuff that they use continuously through the day, every day.

When someone would tell me how expensive an iPhone is, which would last five, six years, just to go and purchase Chinese off brand phone from AliExpress for a couple hundred, that would last a couple years tops, I have to laugh. It's like calling someone out for buying a slightly expensive Toyota, while driving a Chevrolet.

[vbeeaz]

I doubt most young people in Spain are even earning minimum salary.

>When someone would tell me how expensive an iPhone is...

Also, of course if the average person in Spain had even the simplest economic skills we wouldn't be one of the poorest countries in the EU.