[krapp]

>for those of no faith, we have celebrities

No, we don't. I know this is commonly bandied about as a truism but no one actually worships celebrities in the same way, or for the same purpose, as the religious worshiping deity, except maybe serial killers.

[I_Am_Nous]

I believe their point is that humans want an object of devotion in some capacity, religious or otherwise. People LOVE Elon Musk because he's the personality of the microera and while they wouldn't go as far as deifying him, they might consider him better than "regular people".

In theological terms we have an infinite capacity for desire, designed that way by God because we were created to be in communion with him, an infinite being. If you are not "filling the gap" with faith, you'll fill it with something else. If you were created to loudly proclaim the gospel, but lose faith, maybe you loudly proclaim whatever you think the world needs to know about your favorite celebrity.

[krapp]

Like a lot of religious people, you seem to assume that anyone who doesn't believe in God, as you understand God, has some void in their life they are desperate to fill. The truth is, there are such people both within Christianity and without, and religion can be as much an addiction as heroin, and relationships with God, for those who believe, can be as parasocial as with any celebrity.

Nevertheless, many irreligious people are nonetheless perfectly happy, self-actualized and fulfilled without any religion whatsoever.

[I_Am_Nous]

I agree with everything you said :) part of the reason this is a common belief (the God shaped hole in our heart as it's sometimes called) is because we Christians have internalized what we believe to be truths - God created us, God wants to be in communion with us, God is spirit but we are body/soul composites so our body can be used to serve in this material world while our soul is in communion with God spiritually.

As you said, many Christians struggle with depression (waves I'm on Zoloft lol) and their hearts are "filled" so what's the deal? Well, our hearts are only as full as we want them to be. Many Christians are more attached to the world than God. They'll stay up late for a football game, but ask them to stay up late praying and most of them will laugh. Also, as we believe we are body/soul composites there can be various modes depending on our Christian journey.

Our soul can be full while we are suffering martyrdom. Our soul can be barren (usually called dryness) while our body has never felt better. Life is a journey home to be with God, and sometimes we need to practice things like patience when we are tired or grumpy.

From Gods perspective, if a soul is incapable of receiving the gospel and they die without being baptized, he still wants to save that soul. Would a viable strategy be to give them a good life in spite of their ignorance, which they will see the full picture of after death, and they accept God? They won't feel the lack of God because it wouldn't help bring them closer to God.

[nicoburns]

> I believe their point is that humans want an object of devotion in some capacity, religious or otherwise

Perhaps that's true. But for many people that's their friends, family and community rather than some kind of idol. And it's certainly not true that everyone feels the need to proclaim loudly about something (I do, but that's another matter!)

[I_Am_Nous]

Very true, one of the best traits about humans is that we try to have families to practice love! My "proclaimer" example was intended to show how someone could be given desires and skills for a certain purpose but they choose against Gods will and use their same desire and skill for worldly purposes. Alternate example would be someone intended to invent gene therapy for something but they instead work on bioweapons cuz it pays better.

[pstuart]

I was being mildly flippant, but my point is that we want to "look up".

And of course celebrities don't threaten you with eternal torture if you don't love them and do what they say, so it's definitely a bit more lighthearted engagement.