[philippK]

well i have bad news for you. the only party in germany that is really pro free market capitalism, the FDP, is on its way to obscurity due to severe policy missteps.

All the other parties embrace, as we call it here, "social capitalism" to varying degrees.

So, in germany, you mainly have the choice between several "left leaning" parties.

When measured by US standards, most our parties are "socialist".

[viandante]

As much as definitions are concerned, also US has only socialist parties. The first problem begins when your parties only discuss about further spending and never about expense reductions (as in US too). The other problem begins when the State thinks it has the right to decide on things that should be left to the individual, for example, it makes absolutely no sense that in Germany shops are mandated to be closed on Saturdays (less of this in Us?).

Finally, as there is no pure socialism/capitalism, I believe we should look at few simple things. For example, effective taxation (together with mandatory helthcare and pension) on the individual should not be 50% of his income (and it is in Italy, for example); public spending should not be 50% of GDP either. Let's start from here...

[nickik]

I think you use the term socialism wrong. Socialism means the workplace is owned by workers in some fashon. What you talk about are Statist policys. They are often confused because what people often mean when they say Socialism/Communism is State Socialism USSR style.

I agree that we need to throw away this rules and lot of burocracy. I think the BGK is a nice system if you want to have a social system and a pension system without giving the government real controll of the people (Gov. part of GDP would rise but the controll would be a lot less).

Taxation needs to be simpler, the current system is all about spezial intresst. Its a difficuled field but there are many ideas.

[Tichy]

It seems to be by US standards every state that collects taxes is socialist. After all, that means the government decides what to spend part of your money on. Why is it more socialist to spend the money on healthcare than on a new motorway?

[viandante]

I am not from US, but indeed I do see as socialist any State that collects taxes. Socialism is a broad definition, I just like to use it like this because it shows that the problem is the continuum and not the extremes. And for me the main continuums to look at are spending and taxes on GDP. Those should be lower than 50% (arbitrary number from my side, but it makes sense).