[brico]

This has nothing to do with their politics, it is simply the fact that they offer an alternative, people will vote for them because they don't feel represented by the other parties.

They are new, they are cool, they have an "anti-authoritarian" vibe, they will achieve nothing and be forgotten in a couple of years.

The funny thing is, the "Greens" are considered old, they have achieved nothing (there's still a massive oil dependency, there are still nuclear reactors, ...) and now they panic :)

Edit: the Pirates can gain traction by promising people "if we only had the power, we could do this or that" and they can increase their popularity by simply critisizing the current parties in power ("we would have it done some other way, we would have [insert popular opinion]") but in the end they will change nothing, just read up on the history of the Greens and just replace the name with Pirates

[brazzy]

Claiming that the Greens achieved nothing is rather ridiculous. They achieved a lot of things (most importantly that protecting the environment has become an issue none of the other parties can simply ignore). That they did not achieve everything they wanted at some point is the nature of democracy (and reality).

It's true that the Pirate Party is right now getting attention and votes through hype and protest voters, and that they choose their stances based on ideals rather than realism. They'll have all kinds of problems when these things change (as they will have to).

But the Greens are a perfect example for a new party that pulled through all this and became firmly established because their core issue is important enough.

[darklajid]

Disclaimer: I voted for the Pirates last time I could.

It sounds you are with the Greens from your statement (Disclaimer 2: I voted for them in the years before).

Saying that the Pirates are basing their stances on idealistic views might be fine. Using that as a contrast to a party that more or less embodied idealistic (and sometimes unrealistic) positions for as long as I followed their way seems awkward to me.

Yes, the Greens matured. I .. think one of the reasons is that there's a generational gap now. Around me, Greens are represented by people in their 40s-50s that - while still believing in the core environmental values - gave up a little and made peace with a more realistic (as you put it) stance.

The Pirates, for me, are what the Greens probably (wasn't there, in my early 30s here) were for my parents generation..

My bottom line: I agree that the Greens are/were important. But it doesn't make sense to ignore the similarities in 'idealism', the youth factor etc. - the Pirates are what the Greens couldn't be. It's a failure of the Greens that they couldn't capture the young generation. In spirit they are similar. In practice, the Greens grew up. Became mature, parents (or grand parents) and (Disclaimer 3: obviously this whole piece is one big opinionated mess) old and boring.

[brazzy]

I actually have the same voting history as you and agree perfectly with most of what you wrote, except for one thing:

The Pirates are very similar to what the Greens were. They may "mature" in the same way, or in a different way, or they may disintegrate, but just like the Greens, they definitelly will not forever be the hip, rebellious party that voters flock to who are disillusioned by established parties.

[philippK]

I disagree that greens did not achieve much. They have completely changed the political discourse in germany.

After 30 years of the greens being in the Bundestag, we now have the largest percentage of renewable energy in europe (>20% of our energy already comes from it), even the most conservative of parties now subscribe to quitting nuclear energy altogether (7 reactors have been shut down already, the rest is to follow until 2021) , we have the strictest environmental laws in europe, and on and on.

I would say the greens have been very successful by any measure.

[cabalamat]

> I disagree that greens did not achieve much. They have completely changed the political discourse in germany.

Yes and that's what the Pirates will do. Some ideas will no longer be expressible in mainstream politics, because it will be political suicide to do so, such as: support for disconnecting people from the internet, prosecuting file sharers, paywalled academic journals, software patents, pervasive internet surveillance, etc.

[insn]

> [...] we now have the largest percentage of renewable energy in europe [...]

Source? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_Europe... contradicts this

[philippK]

Well it is certainly true that there are countries in europe that have even more renewable energy than we have.

The other countries in europe that have more renewables than we have are mostly smaller countries that don't have the population or industrial output that germany has.

The numbers in the article you cite are also terribly outdated. Some more up to date numbers can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany#St...

As you can see there germany has made BIG advances in the amount of renewable energy produced, as well as its overall share of energy consumed.

My point was: * Germany was 20years ago pretty conservative about energy, relying mainly on coal, gas and nuclear.

Then the green party came into the political landscape and now * We are on the forefront of converting our highly industrous economy completely to renewable energies. No other country in europe has increased the amount of renewabled energy produced by 5x in the last 10 years alone. At this rate, we will be overtaking even the smaller countries that may have more renewables than we have now. * We are the only country of this size and economic gravitas that is fully committed to quiting nuclear. * We have very strict environmental protection laws, with environmental protection even enshrined in the national constitution , more so than in other industrous european countries (yes there's always switzerland or other small countries that are nominally "better" at this but you can not compare their impact or structure with large countries such as germany) See also: http://www.goethe.de/ges/umw/ein/en5099932.htm * Gas is more expensive in germany than elsewhere in europe (again there might be exceptions) because of "ecological taxing" that was proposed by the green party

So, in all what i wanted to say was: Germany has changed a great deal due to the green party in the last decades. Where once we were very conservative about ecological ideas, we are now at the forefront, if not the sole leader, in many of these areas. And that is,to a large degree, thanks to the greens because they have put those issues on the agenda again and again - and that way changed the political discourse at large.

[gurkendoktor]

The Greens are also relatively vocal about Verbraucherschutz ("consumer protection"). I think that's where they could keep scoring even when people stop caring about energy.

[nickik]

Are you sure that you have the larges amount of renewable energy in europe? Austria seams to have more and I think Switzerland too. I cant really find good numbers atm.

[Tichy]

I think it is a little bit more than that: the feeling is that the established parties are completely detached from the problems of normal people, and certainly don't represent their interests anymore. One comparatively harmless recent example: one politician got caught for cheating on her PhD (copying stuff). So she lost her job in parliament, but next she was offered a job as "science relations adviser" for the European parliament (especially her who had just betrayed the institutions of science) - a slap in the face of the honest population.

The pirate party promised to represent the real people, it is written in their genes that they want to prevent politicians being politicians just for the sake of power. For example the discussions sometimes go so far that they think their representatives in parliament should only act like puppets executing the decisions made by online votes.

Whether they'll manage to deliver is another question, but they don't claim to have all the answers and their intentions are pure.

The thing is, that lack of answers is often held against them. But if you think about it, the other parties don't have the answers either. They just stumble through blunder upon blunder (for example dealing with the financial crisis). It's just a human fallacy to assume somebody who takes a firm stance is also competent (this was even shown in psychological experiments).

[yaix]

Nope.

I will vote for them, because in some important areas of politics they have the better offer.

And because say don't try to say things in a "politically correct" way, but just say it. No professional spokes persons, media professionals, image professionals, etc. They are (for now) just people with an option.

[Falkvinge]

just like the previous international waves like the green movement and that silly workers' party

[ZeroGravitas]

More on this topic here:

"We're the New Green Movement," Says Pirate Party Founder

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elisabeth-braw/pirate-party_b_...

edit: just realized I'm replying to the person interviewed in my link!

[hessenwolf]

I disagree. I would vote for the Pirate Party if I could just for their stance on internet freedom. I'd like to see media monoliths destroyed by having their control on distribution taken away from them.