[sasaf5]

Having a loving person to share a personal history with is an advantage that's difficult to outweigh.

[yencabulator]

That's a relationship not a marriage.

[snvzz]

Marriage is well-known to work counter to that goal.

It destroys families.

[UncleMeat]

I have an extremely hard time understanding how marrying my wife made me more likely to break up with her.

[snvzz]

Divorce court is the incentive.

[UncleMeat]

Divorce happens after a failed relationship. Are you seriously saying that my wife is made more likely to end a happy relationship because of the outcomes of a divorce proceeding?

[dragonwriter]

The availability of divorce means that failed relationships (which the availability of divorce does not cause) which end up in marriage can be resolved, but neither marriage nor the availability of divorces causes most of those relationship failures.

[snvzz]

The argument was never that the availability of divorce caused the (extremely high) outcome of divorce.

It is, and continues to be, that the extremely unbalanced (against the man) outcome of divorce creates a massive power unbalance in the relationship. And that's the incentive.

As the almost-guaranteed to be greatly benefited party, pressing the button is, rationally, a much better option than trying to resolve any issues in the relationship.

A relationship w/o marriage lacks this perverse incentive.

I will pass on giving Her a diamond and a government-endorsed knife to stab me with. We are supposed to be equal and this shit is ridiculous.

Note I am ending my participation on this discussion here, on my end, as it has started to go in circles, some heat is sensed, and I can tell it will not be productive to go any further.

[dragonwriter]

No, it doesn't.

Marriage is insufficient to save a relationship which wasn't healthy in the first place, though.

[cpursley]

There's a vast body of peer reviewed research that disagrees with your opinion.

[snvzz]

Why not link some if there's so much? But be careful: it has to be marriage specifically, as compared to relationships w/o marriage.

What we actually know is how marriage ends. Right now, it is already divorce, for almost every marriage.

When divorce happens, courts rule in favor of the woman, most of the time. As a man, it is irrational to marry.

When there's children, it is well demonstrated to result in very bad odds for the healthy development of these children.

As a parent, or intend-to-be parent, it isn't just irrational, but deeply irresponsible as it involves the children's well-being and future.

[sasaf5]

Perhaps we live in much different cultures. I am curious. Well known where? By whom?

[snvzz]

>Well known where?

Well-known in the United States.

>By whom?

By anybody not willfully ignorant on marriage and its recorded outcomes.

It would have to be willfully ignorant because, if living in the states, not noticing how much it is happening all around oneself would be very unlikely.