Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by izacus 954 days ago
The fact that they're being in this mess absolutely means that they did not pay taxes according to the laws. Did you miss what the article says?
2 comments

it just means a tax authority disagrees with someone rich enough to see what a court thinks

public servants don’t know their laws better than private lawyers do, one of the beauties of using lawyers is that the public servants don’t know which legal rationale you are using and have no way to find out except in the court.

this is often a deterrent for them to bother, because they know they can be wrong or completely blindsided by a mixture of laws they never considered.

in this case, it wasn't a deterrent and we will find out.

but just because a tax authority disagrees doesnt mean the defendant was not compliant according to the law. it means the calculators are different and everyone has to figure out why.

> Did you miss what the article says?

Yes, I read it, including the bit that said the Irish government told Apple their tax affairs were legal.

Apple paid taxes according to the laws that Ireland had at the time. The issue is not that Apple did not pay taxes according to the law, it’s that the laws themselves were incompatible with Ireland’s other obligations.

> Apple paid taxes according to the laws that Ireland had at the time.

The TFEU/Lisbon Treaty is law in Ireland and the allegation is that the deal between Apple and the Government was in breach of Article 107, which regulates State Aid.

The ultimate arbiter of whether the deal was lawful is the CJEU. Until decided there, it is uncertain whether Apple acted lawfully.

> The issue is not that Apple did not pay taxes according to the law, it’s that the laws themselves were incompatible with Ireland’s other obligations.

This just fundamentally misunderstands the relationship between member states and the EU. The EU Treaties and subsequent Regulations (although not Directives, which must be transposed into law nationally) are actually laws across the bloc. Not foreign treaties, not state obligations, but actual laws. Furthermore they take precedence over national laws and can be enforced by the bloc at a judicial level.

In addition, whether the Government of the day gave assurances of lawfulness or not, all large enterprises know that only the courts can actually decide whether a deal is lawful or not. This is the same in most democracies, including the US.

Ireland being in the EU, and Apple doing business across the EU, means that Irelands opinion might not be the last or valid one.