[mindslight]

You've put forth an utter straw man. I am rationally against making government verification of identity stronger precisely because the existing identity systems have been pervasively abused with essentially no recourse. After there is a US equivalent of the GDPR that lets me prevent the surveillance industry, including the traditional financial surveillance industry, from unilaterally creating dossiers about me, then we can talk about better implementations of identity verification. Until then, that dumpster fire is the main thing holding back the surveillance industry from pushing identity verification for ever more routine things like opening online accounts or buying groceries.

[FireBeyond]

> You've put forth an utter straw man. I am rationally against making government verification of identity stronger precisely because the existing identity systems have been pervasively abused with essentially no recourse.

There's absolutely no straw man. Among other reasons, things like this are exactly why there is opposition in some segments.

You've literally argued "You're making a strawman by describing what I think!" You're against it because overreach and abuse. I say a segment is against it because of reasons including that. Maybe less of a hair trigger is needed.

[mindslight]

> There's absolutely no straw man. Among other reasons, things like this are exactly why there is opposition in some segments.

Sure, technically there is a sliver of actual people out there worried about "mark of the devil". I'd still say it's a straw man to use that to characterize general opposition.

> You've literally argued "You're making a strawman by describing what I think!"

Uh, not at all. I accept that the government wants to be able to identify citizens. I'm not calling this government overreach. What I have a problem with is the ongoing failure to pass any corresponding laws that prohibit companies from abusing these identification systems to build limitless privately-owned completely-unaccountable surveillance databases. These abuses need to be stopped first, rather than brushing off the problems we're already suffering and giving even more to the surveillance industry.

As I said, pass a US GDPR that gives me the right to opt out of most of the surveillance industry, lets me drastically curtail and audit the parts I don't completely opt out of, and make sure any new types of identity attestation are still refutable in the legal system, and I am generally on board with stronger identification through something like a smart card.