[brnt]

I have three laptops each with Intel graphics, each from a different generation. They all have the same show stopping (as in screen locking gotta reset) bugs after a fresh distro install, no adjustments.

But ofcourse, Wayland isn't the problem...

[chlorion]

Wayland has been flawless for me, but for others not so much.

Every thread about wayland has people claiming it's broken yet they aren't reporting bugs or providing useful information at all, just vague complaints.

Many people experience no issues with wayland, and some people do experience issues, but without any information nothing can be done to even attempt to fix things. It's possible in many cases that something is misconfigured, or a known issue that has been fixed in newer releases of whatever you are using, or a genuine bug that hasn't yet been discovered. Nobody will ever know though.

[vlovich123]

Basically your complaint is “Linux users aren’t spending hours to reproduce every single issue and keep following up with additional debug info from every developer new to the conversation”. What if instead the model was done survey who has issues and pick 1 random person who’s reporting issues and build up a knowledge base of the ways it’s failing (ie formally “here’s the symptoms, here’s the root cause and here’s the fix” whether that fix is something the user has to do on their end or a new SW version. I think if you did that enough times, you’d be randomly sampling the highest effect bug rates. It’s not the cheapest way to do this but if you’re having so many foundational issues with something as it’s looking like Nvidia is with Wayland (especially given how old Wayland is), that’s what I’d be telling the Linux driver team at Nvidia to own end to end until we believed all the largest Nvidia issues were resolved (whether or not it’s a driver problem) and then go back to normal triage processes. This stuff is normal shit that happens at high performing teams when things are this bad (eg an entire component critical to Wayland working on a Linux desktop isn’t working if you’re an Nvidia customer).

Asking users to contribute to fixing their own issues is the quickest way to make sure nothing ever gets done. I’m an extremely technical user but im using Linux for my day to day engineering needs. I have other SW that needs my attention and debugging my personal desktop issues is not what I’d like to be doing. If it gets bad enough I’ll reinstall the OS from scratch or switch back to Mac and figure out how I can make Linux work in a VM so I can test the software I need. But right now the SW I’m working on is Linux-only and if I can solve and figure out a workaround for the problem by myself without having to pause and follow up about some bug is not where I want to spend my energy. I have enough trouble keeping track of conversations on GitHub. I just hope any bugs I can’t figure out myself will eventually get solved without me having to do anything. And I do follow up some times but the value of that has been hit and miss enough that I do it as rarely as possible.

[brnt]

I did. It was a base distro install just booted up, as I already stated.l, on three different, bog standard machines. They were not interested either.

I take my bug reports a bit more seriously, and I don't use instances of success to discount instances of failure. A bug's a bug, a good proces cares about outliers (and as you say, Wayland erroring does not seem like an outlier) too.

I understand not all combinations of hardware can work flawlessly, but Intel machines with Intel hardware seems like a good baseline to ensure always works before you mainline Wayland.

[hulitu]

> yet they aren't reporting bugs or providing useful information at all,

When you have to register on a website to report bugs, you just switch back to X (path of least resistance).

[vetinari]

Maybe if you told us, how to replicate this show stopping bug so we could it try ourselves, someone could fix it then. Wayland being the problem or not.

[duckmysick]

Not the OP, but happens to me too. Steps to replicate: put your laptop to sleep (suspend) and try to wake it up (resume). You end up with a black screen. Often times, you can SSH into your laptop, but the screen remains unresponsive. Only hard reset helps.

There are many reports of such bug. It's common on Wayland, but happens on X11 to some folks. The only constant is it happens on devices with Nvidia cards.

I tried pretty much everything and I gave up on solving it.

[brnt]

I didn't even have to do anything. Just boot after a fresh install and wait a minute or two. Three generation of all Intel laptops. I uploaded some logs, but people were utterly uninterested or hostile.

[kaba0]

It has nothing to do with Wayland though, based on the description. Wayland used the base kernel API to manage the display. That is probably broken on your given device.

X11 often gets patched by a proprietary nvidia blob (the nvidia driver), which uses a separate, non-standard, X-specific API.

[brnt]

May be. As i wrote: Intel gpus. All I know is the problem was gone with an X session and nobody at the distro or some boards showed any interest. Not a good way to make sure code works methinks.

[brnt]

I did, there was no interest.

[vetinari]

I'm curious, because I have machines with Intel GPUs from different vendors and of various generations (from Ivy Bridge, through Kaby Lake up to the Raptor Lake) and I've never seen such a bug.

[brnt]

I was too, but I'm not an expert and at the end of the day I need to get work done. It's up to Wayland devs to care about covering the 1001 edge cases (and thus have a process for user reports) or not.

[mpol]

If the device locks up, is that really Wayland, not the kernel driver or mesa driver?

Here on HN I see a lot of popular opinions on Intel and their drivers. Even today, proposing it as a baseline for Wayland. But could it perhaps be that Intel is just really good at marketing? AMD might be less about marketing and just delivering good drivers.