[iainmerrick]

Hmm, what's wrong with British cafes? I'm not saying they're great, just that I'm not sure what's missing!

In popular cafes there are usually plenty of people sitting around chatting and/or co-working on Macbooks, if that's what you mean.

Fun fact: the owner of a once very popular UK cafe chain, Lyon's Corner Houses, was a pioneer in computing. They built some of the first digital computers in the UK purely to manage their booming cafe business! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Lyons_and_Co.

[lostlogin]

It’s an controversial topic I know…

Where I am there are broadly two types of cafe. Places that sell coffee and maybe/grudgingly three or four food items in a cabinet. You shouldn’t buy these items as they may be old and you are slowing down the coffee queue. These coffee shops survive on the quality of their coffee. More or less like a bar, but serving coffee. They are often small and grungy. They might have some limited seating. They are usually closed by about 3pm.

The other sort of cafe has a kitchen and makes food to order. They open until late.

Phrasing it carefully, British cafes didn’t make coffee anything like what I’m used to, and were pretty much a tea shop with a coffee machine. I want espresso with a dot of milk. Short, hot and the stronger the better.

I wish we had decent pubs with beer gardens.

[iainmerrick]

I'd put British cafes / coffee shops into, hmm, 4 categories:

- Old-fashioned tea shop with a coffee machine, as you describe. Go for filter coffee if they have it.

- Big chain with OK, very reliable coffee + light food: Starbucks, Costa, Nero etc.

- Hip place with plywood panelling and very good Australian-style coffee. Often very good Danish-style pastries too.

- Brunch-y food place, again I think this style comes via Australia (and the US). Often very good coffee too (but sometimes only OK).

I don't think we really have the "great coffee but bad food" places you describe. Generally if the coffee is good, the cookies/pastries/cakes/sandwiches or whatever they have will be decent too.

[mcv]

In Netherland a cafe is a place you go to drink beer with your friends. I've always assumed that 'pub' was just the British word for 'cafe'. But maybe we're the outlier here.

But if you go to a coffeeshop instead, you also might not find what you're looking for.

[qiqitori]

The problem is that they are using Macbooks. They should be using real computers instead!