[activescott]

Talking about how bad a war is seems always misleading to me. Does "Israel retaliated with a bombing campaign" convey that in the last 32 days since October 7, 10,328 people were killed in Gaza. Does it convey that 67% of those killed were children and women? It is all barbaric.

[nailer]

It also doesn't convey that those people being used by Hamas as human shields, Hamas told Palestinians not to evacuate, Hamas shot people that did evacuate, and Hamas used IEDs on roads.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CzWbutetwys/

That said, it's reasonable to suggest Israel should have done a better job of protecting Palestinians from Hamas, as they are now doing:

https://twitter.com/hilzfuld/status/1722306279861809659

[PolygonSheep]

> Israel should have done a better job of protecting Palestinians from Hamas, as they are now doing:

They've protected over 10,000 Palestinians so far!

[nailer]

Stats from the Gaza ministry of health are from Hamas. Secondly it’s hamas that uses civilian infrastructure to hide behind.

[defrost]

UNICEF defends accuracy of Gaza death toll as horror unfolds in ravaged enclave

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/world/gaza-death-toll-acc...

    A UNICEF spokesperson has defended the death toll being reported out of Gaza, saying the organization’s figures had historically matched those of the Hamas-controlled Gazan health ministry.

     UNICEF spokesperson James Elder said on Tuesday the organization’s estimates had closely aligned with the ministry’s in the past, which gave him confidence in the current figures. He told CNN’s Julia Chatterley: “Our numbers were within a couple of percent of that, almost identical. We don’t have that concern based on past history.”

> it’s hamas that uses civilian infrastructure to hide behind.

Would you approve of the IDF bombing occupied Israeli apartments, schools, hospitals, etc if Hamas tunnelled under those?

It's a ~ 4K children body count the IDF have racked up since the Hamas attack - is that a fair and considered response?

[nailer]

That's nice re: UNICEF. Frankly it's unlikely anybody knows the death count in Gaza - it won't be zero, but any charity that has access to Gaza does so on behalf of Hamas and some (UNHCR) even directly fund Hamas.

> Would you approve of the IDF bombing occupied Israeli apartments, schools, hospitals, etc if Hamas tunnelled under those?

It's unlikely that Israelis would let a terrorist organisation operate our of a school or hospital. But yes, the IDF would evacuate the area before engaging just like they do with Gaza.

[pxc]

> It's unlikely that Israelis would let a terrorist organisation operate our of a school or hospital.

By the same standard that is used for evaluating the situation in Gaza, namely the equation of civil administrations with an affiliated military whose reputation is marred by attacks against civilians for allegedly political purposes (the definition of terrorism), all public hospitals in Israel are operated by a terrorist organization.

But of course, that's because it's a very stupid standard.

[activescott]

Most compelling argument of the whole thread:

> Would you approve of the IDF bombing occupied Israeli apartments, schools, hospitals, etc if Hamas tunnelled under those?