[porbelm]

Just remember to install Linux AFTER Windows, or unplug your Linux drive when installing Windows, because MS does not play nice with including other OSes in their bootloader; you're gonna have to mess with your UEFI boot order or add the Windows boot to GRUB after the fact.

[LoganDark]

I don't see why people on modern machines need or bother with GRUB when EFISTUB exists. The UEFI boot manager should be all you need.

[Cu3PO42]

I agree that it should be enough. On my setup using the UEFI boot manager is much more annoying than it should be, though.

I have configured password protection for my UEFI settings (so that a potential attacker could not easily disable Secure Boot, for example) and GIGABYTE's UEFI implementation requires that password for the boot manager as well. In other words, when booting using this setup, I need up to three passwords: 1. UEFI password, 2. Disk encryption password, 3. User password.

Hence I use systemd-boot to set BootNext and reboot into the Windows boot loader.

Another reason for having a bootloader is that you may have more entries than the built-in manager can handle, for example if you can boot into automatic snapshots.

[capableweb]

I think parents point still stand. Windows overwrites any boot related stuff to use it's own. You need to either install X after Windows, or disconnect the proper boot drive when installing Windows, otherwise your system will just boot Windows directly.

[LoganDark]

All Windows does it set itself first in the boot order whenever you start it. What happened to pressing F9 during POST to open the boot menu? Is that too advanced for people that are dual-booting different operating systems?

[porbelm]

If you don't know about it and are about to try this for the first time, it can be a "wtf" moment, yes :) But that's how you learn isn't it

[vetinari]

What does it overwrite, exactly?

Each operating system has its files in their respective directories on ESP, and each operating system registers its own boot entries pointing to bootloader in these directories. With UEFI, there's nothing to overwrite, except setting the default entry.

That's not an issue, since you can both easily boot non-default entries and change, what the default entry is.

[porbelm]

No it doesn't REMOVE the Linux's UEFI partition or files on the drive, but it sets itself to #1 in your UEFI boot list. And since their installer does not add other OSes to the Windows bootloader automatically, you have to either change your UEFI settings or your Windows BOOT.INI (for Windows MBR setups)

[vetinari]

> No it doesn't REMOVE the Linux's UEFI partition or files on the drive, but it sets itself to #1 in your UEFI boot list

So it does what is expected from any boot loader. Installing grub does the same.

> And since their installer does not add other OSes to the Windows bootloader automatically

Which is fine; you should not chainload windows from grub either. Use ntldr for booting windows.

> you have to either change your UEFI settings

Exactly, you can change the default boot entry in your UEFI settings.

Or after POST, press a button on your keyboard for one-off boot change.

---

So what was the complain, again? Some people not using UEFI boot manager in a way it is supposed to be used?

[jcelerier]

Depending on your hardware UEFI boot manager can be a PITA. I have a Dell one where a normal boot to grub/sd-boot takes 5s. But if I want to go to the uefi boot menu for some reason it takes 30+ seconds and from what I can observe, an intermediary reboot. And I end up in some monstrous UEFI GUI with an abysmal mouse cursor behaviour.

[babypuncher]

Because GRUB still ships with the vast majority of Linux distros, and not every UEFI implementation is good about asking which image you want to load every time you boot.

[Zardoz84]

ReFind Does wonders compared against grub

[LoganDark]

rEFInd is most useful on a Mac (it's what I used for a triple-boot). There's no reason to use it on a PC.