[lancefisher]

I’ve started to minimize my use of sunscreen. It still important to stay protected from the sun, but long sleeves, hoods, hats, and pants are a great alternative. The lightweight sun shirts are comfortable and more convenient.

For my kids, I got them cheap wetsuits from Amazon for the time we spend camping at the lake. This is also cheaper than sunscreen. They can fully manage it on their own since about age 6 or 7.

[TedDoesntTalk]

this is a good solution but doesn't protect the face. zinc oxide (physical sunscreen) is a good choice for the face that doesn't have the problems in the article.

Of course, zinc oxide looks terrible - white hue - but there are some that are not as bad as others. I use Neutrogena Sheer Zinc Kids (roll-on, so adults and kids can use it easily). After a little rubbing, it's still noticeable but just barely. The "regular" neutrogena sunblock - lotion style - has one or more of the chemicals that break down into benzene. Some of them were in the FDA recall. The EWG article doesn't mention these break down into benzene. It shoulld. ConsumerLabs did a thorough review and analysis.

The summer 2023 Consumer Reports (not ConsumerLabs) article on sunscreen had absolutely no mention of the sunscreen recalls (2021, 2022, 2023) and in fact recommended some products that had been recalled and are known to break down into benzene and benzophenone. Any residual respect I had for them is now gone.

[devit]

A silver-coated umbrella is very effective at protecting the face as well as some of the upper body (or the whole body, if the sun is directly overhead or the umbrella is huge), except for UV reflected from elsewhere which I think is usually not significant.

[stronglikedan]

I found a good reef friendly zinc oxide (All Good Zinc Butter Sunscreen) that doesn't give the white sheen when you rub it in really well. A lil' dab'll do ya, as they say.

[Moru]

Don't sunscreen need to be pretty thick to be as good as it says on the label?

[ruszki]

I read somewhere that most of the people need SPF50+, because they apply it “badly”, AKA not enough, and definitely not often enough.

[copperx]

Tinted zinc oxide face sunscreen is fantastic, and it covers face blemishes. It's like makeup lite.

Zinc/titanium oxide for the body is a more problematic, I've haven't found a brand that blends well.

[TedDoesntTalk]

Titanium dioxide protects primarily against UVB and much less so for UVA. Zinc oxide protects against both.

[NikolaNovak]

Don't hats protect face reasonably well?

(not talking baseball hats here:)

[reaperman]

EltaMD has a "almost entirely invisible" zinc oxide sunblock as well.

[TedDoesntTalk]

which one? they have 15 face sunscreens, and 8 body sunscreens, all with zinc oxide. can you please recommend? I want to try it. Thank you.

[reaperman]

UV Clear - https://eltamd.com/collections/face-sunscreen/products/uv-cl...

This is the one I enjoyed! But the new packaging shows "Active Ingredients: 9% Zinc Oxide, 7.5% Octinoxate" ... my older packaging didn't show Octinoxate, which is likely an endocrine disruptor. So I'm rather annoyed and can't recommend it anymore.

[justinator]

I actually started using a mask for my face. My nose has never been more happier.

[talldatethrow]

How does one get their required sun for vitamin D if taking sunscreen so seriously?

[galangalalgol]

I still wear a hat, or cover up entirely if I will be out all day, but the fern based pills like helicare or solaricare or whatever seem to prevent me from burning, or even reverse a mild burn if I take it fast enough. I have no idea if it is preventing dna damage that would lead to cancer. But I get a little tan by the end of the summer. And I've never done that before. My dermatologist recommended it so it must be fine...

[talldatethrow]

Judging by the amount of people that are Vitamin D deficient according to the medical community, makes me really wonder if the medical community would think twice about giving you tips that make you continue being vitamin D deficient. It doesn't seem to be important to them.

[roldie]

I've never heard of these fern-based supplements before. How are they supposed to be better than other antioxidants?

[Terr_]

AFAICT there is no scientific evidence of people actually getting vitamin-D deficiency from sunscreen use.

Even with really powerful sunscreen, every second you're exposed some portion of those UV-B wavelengths are still getting through to catalyze the production of Vitamin D.

According to one study [0] on a sunny summer day in Spain you could have 25% of your skin exposed and only need 7 minutes for that day's vitamin-D needs. (Obviously longer in dimmer conditions and wintertime, but those aren't the times people are going to slather sunscreen everywhere either.)

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29156273/

[TedDoesntTalk]

Note: vitamin D production is reduced with age (given same amount of sunlight exposure)

[InSteady]

Alcohol also interferes with vitamin D synthesis.

[ruszki]

In the summer, you only need a few minutes of exposure. Basically, you get that even if you use sunscreen all the time, because you make mistakes.

[talldatethrow]

So why are so many people vitamin D deficient?

[ruszki]

Because there are other seasons, climate types, latitudes, skin colours, and there are a ton of people who rarely, if at all go outside, especially those who have panic, stress, or anxiety disorders.

Also, of course, there is a variability between people how much vitamin D they can produce, but we have no real clue about the causal connections there, but so far it seems that it’s way less important than other factors generally speaking, especially in the context of “many people”.

[talldatethrow]

Well I said many people because I'm not an encyclopedia... I just knew it was a lot which refutes your point.

So I looked it up, like you should have. In the US it's 40%. You're telling me 40% of people don't go outside for a few minutes??

If 40% of people have a vitamin D deficiency, I think you should change your recommendation for everyone other than people that get a lot of sun.

[TedDoesntTalk]

Vitamin D supplements + Vitamin K2

[mmh0000]

To add to this, you should also be getting regular (like twice a year) blood draws done to check where all your nutrient levels are. This way, you can decide which supplements and how much.

Through this, I've learned that my Vit. D supplement works. My multivitamins work, and my B12 supplements work. My previous iron supplement was not working, and I was able to make a change to a different product. Then, six months later, a blood test showed my iron levels back in the normal range.

[red-iron-pine]

why K2? you getting lots of K vitamins from the sun?

[fragmede]

it helps with the absorption of vit D

[talldatethrow]

Honestly, I love comments like this to remind me that HN posters have massive blind spots in knowledge that most people would assume are almost common knowledge for an adult. But beyond that, in the face of seeing 90% of the answer presented in front of you by the prior commenter, where you could basically infer that there must be some be some benefit to taking both, instead of googling it prior to a comment, you reply back with a snide comment assuming the prior poster is a total fool.

[deathanatos]

> cheap wetsuits

See "rash guards". They're light-weight UV-opaque T-shirts that are intended to get wet, essentially. I wear one, and I do not burn under it, even at the beach, in the sun, all day. Do not forget to apply sunscreen to your hands, since it doesn't cover them — I made that mistake exactly once. (And other exposed areas, of course.)

[fractallyte]

Here's a European manufacturer: https://iq-uv.com/en/

Excellent quality, and their clothing really works. (I wore their Water Sports shirts extensively while swimming and diving in south Italy, where the sun is fierce.)

[LorenPechtel]

Never heard of them before, sounds like they might be useful.

[TedDoesntTalk]

I've never heard them called wet suits or rash guards. Here we call them "sun shirts" or "UV shirts". They are most definitely not wet suits like scuba diver gear.

[deathanatos]

Oh, rash guards are most definitely not wet suits, I wasn't intending to imply that. Just for what the parent was using them for (protecting kids while doing what sounds like playing in the lake) they sound like they'd be a better fit than a wet suit.

"UV shirt" would be a far more sensible name than "rash guard", I admit. That was just the name I learned for them when I first found out they existed. (Which was in Hawaii, under a brutally unforgiving sun.)

[lancefisher]

Rash guards are halfway between a wetsuit and a sun shirt. I have one for surfing, but I got the kids wetsuits because Flathead Lake can be cold as well as sunny. They have more fun and play longer in the water with them.

[Incipient]

Down under we call the rash vests, or "rashies". They're typically a thin neoprene like material, often as thin as a t-shirt, but some can be a bit thicker for warmth too.

[dotps1]

I mean that's a great anecdote, but it distracts from the article.

The takeaway here that people should be leaving with is that mineral based sunscreen is a safe, effective, and healthy alternative.

This "throw the baby out with the bathwater" comment that does not address the linked article at all should not be at the top.