[jjkeddo199]

Seeing drone dropped grenades everywhere in Ukraine has made me worried about normalized "drone drop murders" spreading to the rest of the world. With widely available addresses gang violence, political killings, and even online flamewar escalations will become much much uglier.

Who needs to do a driveby shooting if you could drop a homemade bomb from a McDonalds bathroom 20 miles away using some jailbroken drone? Violence isn't the only issue either -- Imagine what will happen when courts catch up to the internet age. Get ready for the normalization of digging through decades of comment history to character assassinate people on a whim. This is getting really bad. I don't think society at large is ready for the coming nightmare.

--

We need immediate privacy reforms to:

1. Fine companies for requiring unneeded personal data. Fine companies for collecting addresses and numbers when they don't need them. Address + number specifically should be dumped when no longer needed.

2. Fully regulate+audit data-based industries to confirm that anonymized user profiles are truly anonymous.

3. Raise the legal bar allowing usage of personal data to harm an individual. Lawyers and employers shouldn't be able to find+splice your Youtube comment history to try and character assassinate you outside of some felony-tier criminal case.

[rurp]

Changing posession of personal user data from a financial asset to a liability is probably the most effective thing the government could do in the near term to protect people's information. Companies right now are incentivized to collect tons of personal data because it's worth real money to them and others, and the liabilities mostly fall to the users. If there were heavy financial consequences to leaking personal data then companies would self regulate away a lot of terrible behavior that is currently common.

[ethbr1]

Imho, the test should be "Is targeted advertising barely profitable?"

It should cost enough to retain personal data that, unless that's your primary business and you're very good at it, it doesn't make financial sense.

[cycomanic]

Sometimes the US perspective of things is completely surreal for me as a European. In a country where you can buy assault rifles with minimal background checks, people worry about addresses being available because someone might be able to look up the address to kill them with a drone and a home made bomb.

[jjkeddo199]

As other commenters have mentioned, US American's ease of access to firearms does not extend to their usage. If you buy a weapon and wrongly shoot someone, there is a system in place to make sure you are found and punished. There is no such system in place for catching people flying drones.

[TheCleric]

Sure there is (if you use that drone as a weapon). It would be the same investigation as someone putting a bomb at your front door. They’d analyze the components and narrow down the people with the motive and figure out which one bought them.

[runako]

> there is a system in place to make sure you are found and punished

Famously, this system works well after it would be useful.

[Zagitta]

Have you not heard of remote-id?

It's a legal requirement for drones above 250g to broadcast not only their position but also the position of the operator and their identification number.

[csomar]

Yeah, I am pretty sure the people of Hamas are following the guidelines and have satisfied all of the regulatory requirements before flying their small grenade carry-on drones.

[red-iron-pine]

I'm pretty sure the people of Hamas aren't flying drones in Cleveland.

And the FCC is pretty damn ruthless about finding and triangulating signals that don't comply with their rules.

[jjkeddo199]

There are custom firmwares out to bypass these types of things, unfortunately.

[kajecounterhack]

> In a country where you can buy assault rifles with minimal background checks, people worry about addresses being available because someone might be able to look up the address to kill them with a drone and a home made bomb.

Drones and IUDs may be less traceable than guns and offer even less risk to the user. Currently if you're going to use a gun, you basically have to be suicidal or care zero about the consequences.

But that also brings up a good point -- people worry about addresses being available because someone might be able to use a gun and kill them as well. Or hell, just their fists.

Doxxing is dangerous, is this not the case in Europe as well?

[fullspectrumdev]

Doxing remains dangerous in Europe, the posters just trying to score cheap points.

[mikrotikker]

Remember that time a bunch of Scandinavian bikers got hold of some Carl Gustovs and used them to explode a rivals building among other things?

[edot]

> Drones and IUDs may be less traceable than guns and offer even less risk to the user.

Gotta watch out for those intra-uterine devices - they can take out a city block. ;)

[kajecounterhack]

Oops! Thanks.

s/IUD/IED/r

[janalsncm]

Depends. If you’re really looking to avoid detection then 3d printing a gun is a lot easier than a drone.

[fullspectrumdev]

As an European living in Europe I worry about addresses being available because someone suitably unhinged and upset can come to my house and stab me, set it on fire, etc.

[oaththrowaway]

Curious what you define as "minimal background checks" and "assault rifles" as

[digdugdirk]

They already said they're European. The terms you mentioned are very Americanized/America-centric phrases.

The rest of the world doesn't really have the same concern or context, because the rest of the world doesn't have the same issues or political/media environment.

[oaththrowaway]

I was quoting their terms

[YetAnotherNick]

Not American, and curious about the checks required for different weapons. I get lot of contradictory information online.

Also read in many places buying illegally is easy. How true is that?

[oaththrowaway]

To purchase a firearm from a store or any "licensed" individual (someone who has an FFL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License) you must pass a background check done by the FBI. You can read more here: https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/more-fbi-services-an...

If you buy a gun from someone on a classifieds site or friend/family, in most states you don't have to get a background check to transfer ownership of the firearm. This is typically the "loophole" that people refer to when they want Universal Background Checks.

I'm not sure what you mean by buying illegally - whether you mean to someone prohibited from owning firearms (like a felon or something), or buying "illegal" guns... Either way there are usually stiff penalties for owning restricted devices. For example if I were to 3D print an auto-sear for an AR-15 (making it full-auto), that's a ticket to a 10 year sentence in federal prison. Assuming I don't have the permission slip from the ATF. As for prohibited persons buying a firearm, I'm not sure what the penalties are, but at the least it'd be a violation of their release?

[jjkeddo199]

Buying legally in the US isn't that hard to make it worth it to buy illegally unless you are a broke teenager buying one to try and "look cool and tough" to your friends.

[filoleg]

> Buying legally in the US isn't that hard to make it worth it to buy illegally unless you are a broke teenager

Or unless you have a felony, which would make up a much larger share of illegall firearm purchases than teenagers.

[gottorf]

> unless you are a broke teenager buying one to try and "look cool and tough

Or unless, of course, you're a criminal who is forbidden from legally buying a gun.

[micromacrofoot]

in most states someone who has multiple assault violations and a history of mental health problems can walk into a gun show with $700 and 15 minutes later walk out with a semi-automatic AR-15

[psunavy03]

That's not an assault rifle, first and foremost. Second, selling to someone with multiple assault convictions is itself a Federal felony, and not every gun owner is so careless as to want to take that risk and get pilloried in the press. You're generalizing a worst-case scenario based on a stereotype.

[micromacrofoot]

it's not a worst-case scenario, it's a very obvious loophole that should be closed — private gun purchases should require waiting times and background checks

"not technically an assault rifle" doesn't matter in the slightest, no one's impressed by this constant pedantry... yes, yes, it's an ArmaLite 15 and isn't technically an assault rifle because it's only semi-automatic. This changes absolutely nothing, mass shooters are essentially cosplaying during mass shootings with this thing because it looks like an assault rifle and it's easily accessible.

the proliferation of modern small arms is one of the worst things to happen in human history

[psunavy03]

You can't misrepresent important facts and then claim someone correcting you is engaging in pedantry. That's flat-out gaslighting.

[yieldcrv]

yeah the random killings and random violence are quite low in comparison to domestic violence. while disgruntled people you may know are a bigger vulnerability surface but the social connection makes it easier for the assailant to get caught. so the potential assailants (everyone) has an incentive to think of things more elaborate than picking up their semi automatic gun

[talldatethrow]

Since guns are easily available, it's harder to kill someone.. since they might have a gun.

In Europe, all you need to kill your enemy and his family is two guys and a baseball bat or a knife. In America, you atleast need a gun since odds are they have a gun at home.

[alex_lav]

It’s hilarious and excruciating for many Americans too.

Source: get me out of here

[psunavy03]

Then leave.

[alex_lav]

Trying, friend! Appreciate the words of support!

[psunavy03]

Tell me you know nothing about US gun laws without telling me you know nothing about US gun laws. Some states have stricter laws than Switzerland and Czechia.

[defrost]

Not to mention the US having more than one state and open inter state borders ... which somewhat negates the "some states" line of argument.

[psunavy03]

And Europe has the Schengen area; I assume you're familiar?

[defrost]

Has Texas agreed to adopt the strictest gun control measures in the US sates?

I assume you understand the question re: Schengen.

[psunavy03]

Schengen allows for border crossings with no checkpoints just like US states. Which means the "different states have different laws" canard is no different than Europe. What's to stop someone from leaving Switzerland or Czechia with a firearm until they get caught?

[marfil]

As a European who has been living in the US for a decade, yeah, you're pretty spot on. Americans are a scared people, probably the most scared I've ever seen. Afraid of the gov't, the neighbors, and random people they don't even know. I've gotten a ton of hate as a foreigner and I am not surprised a hateful, greedy and selfish population like here is afraid somebody will take them out with an improvised device.

[dwringer]

Generally making disparaging bigoted comments about a nationality is to be avoided here. It's certainly not productive to this discussion to label anyone as hateful, greedy, and selfish, and it runs afoul of the HN comment guidelines.

There are plenty of ways to contribute to discussion without making remarks that are emotionally charged and inflammatory.

[PrimeMcFly]

Non-American also been living here for a decade, and can only say your experiences are not representative, and you seemed to have picked a poor place to live.

[psunavy03]

Or they're just prejudiced, and taking the worst possible view of their neighbors, who are in all likelihood perfectly normal people.

[justrealist]

And yet, you live here.

Annals of revealed preferences.

[marfil]

Oh no, don't get me wrong, I've been dying to leave, nothing I would like more. But I am sure you've heard of the term economic slavery, and that's what I have become. Don't make enough to make the ends meet, and don't make enough to leave. Have to pay the debts before I can give up the passport.

[slingnow]

You poor soul. Moved to such a terrible nation full of those awful people you described and now you seem to be completely powerless to leave. And I'm 100% sure this is everyone elses fault.

At what point do you look inward for someone to blame for your circumstances?

[marfil]

I was forced to move here when my parent got married. Never wanted to come here, didn't have a choice, tried to like it and I don't think that's humanly possible. Don't be a dick.

[justrealist]

Debt does not stop you from leaving, if you have a second passport.

[marfil]

US is one of the only countries in the world where you still have to pay US taxes no matter where you live or work and what passports you have, as long as you are a US citizen, and you can't give up US citizenship, which is also a paid process, unless you've paid all taxes.

[PrimeMcFly]

I'm sorry but that's just nonsense.

Worst case you can always go back to whatever country you're a citizen on, go on welfare and start over from scratch.

[thieving_magpie]

I'm sure we could pull some money together to get you out of economic slavery. Don't want that on our conscience

[matheusmoreira]

> Afraid of the gov't

They should be. As should you.

[eli]

Seems like being able to look up people's home address is a pretty minor part of that threat?

[jjkeddo199]

At the risk of sounding hyperbolic:

Imagine Iranian agents using these address books to track down naval officers in San Diego from across the border in Tijuana. Having a global address book lowers the barrier for hunting people down and hurting them. This is already happening to off-duty Russian officers mowing the lawn at home.

[yogurtboy]

I kind of agree with your sentiment but your final note about murdered Russian officers needs a citation

[ickelbawd]

Literally the first result when searched for:

https://nypost.com/2023/08/29/russian-lieutenant-colonel-mow...

Edit: not the person making the claim, nor am I particularly vested in this story or its validity. But it took me all of 5 seconds to find.

[autoexec]

Being able to look up someone's address normally isn't a problem. Extremists and nut jobs being able to compile a list of people whose religion, political views, sexual preferences, medical conditions, and purchase habits makes them a target for violence is the problem. At that point being able to find them (using their street address or even real time geolocation data) becomes a pretty big part of that threat.

[3seashells]

The drone drop on individuals is not the biggest worry.

Long range autonomous drones clearly are able to take out large scale infrastructure like pipelines, ships etc, the soft underbelly of the western world. And against the poor and proxy war forces of the world, the law is useless. We will miss the covid delivery crisis very soon.

And yes the US has the biggest navy, but against current drifting Kajak sized anti-ship submarine drones it and civil shipping is actually quite vulnerable.

And to make such a device smart enough to sleep until it identifies sounds and ship pictures, it needs no military industrial complex magic. A smartphone will do..

[matheusmoreira]

Completely agree. Personal information should be a liability to corporations. It should actively cost them money to know anything at all about us. They should be scrambling to forget all they can the second we're done transacting with them.

[elorant]

Most of the footage from Ukraine is from flat empty landscape targeting stationary targets. Trying to do the same on an urban environment with moving targets is way more complicated.

[krisoft]

> Who needs to do a driveby shooting if you could drop a homemade bomb from a McDonalds bathroom 20 miles away using some jailbroken drone?

Driveby shootings are super easy. Drone bombing someone is way harder. Especially from 20 miles away. I don't see how Ukraine would change that.

Getting away with driveby shooting requires about the same amount of faff as getting away with a drone murder. (Because in both cases unless you biff it spectacularly the police is not going to catch you red-handed. They are going to find you based on who wanted the person gone.)

[mschuster91]

> Because in both cases unless you biff it spectacularly the police is not going to catch you red-handed.

The barriers for police have also gotten lower over the time. The thing where a lot of criminals get caught is dragnet surveillance - just subpoena Google, Apple and the operators of cellphone towers for a list of everyone who was in the proximity of where a crime happened, and they have no choice but to deliver the data you yourself collected to the police.

This is also getting worse because it's just a matter of time until states with abortion bans subpoena Google, Microsoft and Apple for which persons that are regularly in that state have visited known abortion providers in another state in a timeframe consistent with an abortion visit, or who have searched about abortions on the Internet.

[ethbr1]

https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/us-surveillance...

It's gotten a lot harder to drive off into the sunset when there are massive CCTV networks.

Drone physically distances the operator from the crime.

[zzzcsgo]

It might be easier to build your own drone rather than jailbreaking a store bought one

[fusslo]

are explosives as easy to get as bullets & guns where you live?

[wutwutwat]

You can buy Tannerite without an explosive license from the ATF. It's been used in past bombings. Plus, unless they outlaw anything from crude oil, alchohol and the plants used to produce it, gun powder, fireworks, and most chemicals under your kitchen sink, there are thousands of combinations that produce a material that can be used to make explosives. Access or lack of isn't the limiting factor, people's willingness to do it is and always will be the case. Air can make an explosive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannerite

[I_Am_Nous]

I'd sure be upset about a remote Molotov cocktail payload busting through my window and burning my house down. Things don't have to be explosive to be dangerous.

[permo-w]

explosives are a 10 minute youtube video away

[wutwutwat]

Wait until someone puts a gun on a drone and shoots up a concert from states away, or another country...

[micromacrofoot]

we're not talking about UAVs here though, someone needs to configure the drone very locally

[wutwutwat]

You realize they are using drones that you or I can buy on amazon, to blow up tanks and people in an ongoing war?

> The logic was simple, Pharmacist says: Exploding drones cost roughly $400 to make, while a conventional projectile can cost nearly 10 times as much. Even if it requires multiple drones to take out a tank — and sometimes it does — it is still worth it.

> But first they had to modify commercial drones with hardware and software to suit the battlefield, enabling them to penetrate deeper behind enemy lines without being detected or jammed. A breakthrough came through the clever use of several drones in unison.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-ukraine-soldiers-use-...

Cell phone w/ 5G and a time investment from a software engineer could make the range limitless. The point is, it's entirely possible to remotely drone strike using shit from amazon if one were so inclined.

[micromacrofoot]

> could make the range limitless

do you have an infinite battery technology? no one's crossing international borders with diy assassin drones unless it's like a mile across the canadian or mexican border — much easier to just shoot someone

[wutwutwat]

I meant wireless range to control it, not fuel/battery range.

You're assuming they intend to fly the drone across an ocean or something to hit a target. We don't fly predator drones across the ocean either, they are transported somewhere via other means, and then deployed to the area needed in a way they have the range to actually hit their target.

Leaving something on a building rooftop and flying back home to later operate it is not an impossible idea. Use your imagination, there are many ways. Fedex is a thing too.