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by duncan-donuts 949 days ago
Do you have any sources on birders directly causing extinction? I think it’s absolutely wild that someone in that profession would drive a species to extinction just to draw it so I’m curious to read more.
2 comments

One of the most famous is Rollo Beck and the quelili. Collecting bird species was a very fashionable thing to do, the rarer the more money it brought in. Better to stuff it and exhibit it than to lose it to the forest - this is before conservation was as concept was a thing.

We're losing bird species like crazy - mostly due to lose of habitat (the big reason for the quelili as well). We're never going to learn.

we drive a lot of species extinction because cat is cute.
I agree that cats are cute, but apparently they also make a good casserole

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-24/alice-springs-author-...

  Mrs. Mooney has a pie shop —
  Does a business but I’ve noticed something weird —
  Lately all the neighbors’ cats have disappeared!
- Mrs. Lovett, Sweeney Todd
You should google "far side" fifi chicken
Yeah but we also overestimate that because when you trace all the references back you come to a dubious statistic formed from someone predisposed to the position.
Sure, anything you don’t like must come from biased sources.

It doesn’t trace back to a single statistic, multiple independent studies have looked into it. The often quoted 1 billion birds killed is actually below most scientific estimates of around 1.3 to 4 billion: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

With domestic cats causing ~31% of the ~2.4 billion deaths and strays making up the majority. You can get similar numbers by ignoring domestic cats and simply look at the stray population and roughly estimate how much meat they need to survive and then compare the percentage of bids vs small mammals caught.

It's a classic thing to take anything printed in that style as gospel. Have you actually read it?

You'll have to ask yourself why this works:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380/tables/1

Besides just the fact that the American bobcat's range is all of the continental USA and it can outcompete the domestic cat in the wild for prey easily.

Sort of a natural limitation of science is that any "study" is treated as gospel truth by people not acquainted with the process or the mathematical knowledge required to verify.

I don't even have cats.

Bobcats are wildly outnumbered by stray cats. If anything it’s strays that are out competing them.

Here’s a 2010 estimate of 2,352,276 to 3,571,681 bobcats in the US: https://meridian.allenpress.com/jfwm/article/1/2/169/206731/...

Even low ends of the estimates for US stray cat population is 10x that. The majority of them need to hunt life prey to survive vs handouts, which is mostly small mammals but anyone that’s been around outdoor cats notices the birds are on the menu.

I’ll turn this around what percentage of a wild cats diet do you think are birds? 5% or 15%? You can work out the pounds of meat they need to survive a year and work back to number of birds needed.

Stray cats are distributed primarily in the urban population, not in the wild. They kill a bunch of pest birds which we'd otherwise use Ovocontrol or something similar to deal with.

That Nature study is pretty much all Fermi estimates. Since we're trading questions until you start answering, what is your estimate of house cats in the wild.

we don't need argue with how it work in current environment. there are a lot of people take cat to their new home in history.