[reitanqild]

ADHD is sometimes wittily described as time dyslexia, and while I haven't met anyone who has described symptoms as bad as this and also know friends with ADHD who play music seemingly effortlessly, this article was still very interesting to me.

I have understood and it also observed that meditation can help somewhat, and I wonder what else can help for people otherwise function well who struggle with time?

[LoganDark]

> ADHD is sometimes wittily described as time dyslexia

As someone with ADHD, this wildly misrepresents the actual disorder. ADHD itself has nothing to do with time, it has to do with executive function. Someone with ADHD can try to will themselves into doing something and simply not be able to. They'll try to make a command, and their body or brain will not listen to them. It will completely refuse to do what they tell it to.

This isn't supposed to happen; you're supposed to have control over what you do. You are supposed to be able to decide to do something, get up and simply do it. But with ADHD, it's not that simple. Even things that require no physical action are difficult, because it's not the actual movement that's hard, it's the decision-making itself. Hence "executive dysfunction".

Any "time dyslexia" effect, wrt scheduling and deadlines and etcetara, is just a symptom of it. The reason why people with ADHD procrastinate is not:

- because they don't know what time it is.

- because they don't know when their deadline is.

- because they don't know how much time they have.

- because they don't know how much time they need.

- because they don't know how easy or hard the task is.

It is because their brain wants to do something else more, and it's not urgent yet.

They absolutely cannot work on the task no matter how hard they try. They have not forgotten. They are not slacking off. They literally just can't do it. Their brain refuses to think about it, their body refuses to move for it. They don't have the willpower or the motivation for it. They are trapped. They are completely unable to make any progress because their brain will not let them.

That's what ADHD is.

Not everyone has it this bad, but ADHD is typically characterized by this happening for at least some things. It could be "showering more than once a week", it could be "doing the dishes before 20 of them have piled up in a big stack", it could be "preparing for a road trip days in advance". It doesn't have to be everything, and it doesn't have to be completely insurmountable, but if you have to have a complicated coping mechanism in order to manage to do something that you otherwise can't just decide to do, that's the disorder.

[reitanqild]

I realize my comment above can be read as "time dyslexia is the whole problem with ADHD" and that was not my intention. Thanks for your perspective!

I also totally agree that ADHD-ers know what time is.

That said, ADHD is a thing I have to deal with and for me and a number of those I know who have ADHD, "time dyslexia" is a very good explanation for a subset of the problems we observe.

> They absolutely cannot work on the task no matter how hard they try. They have not forgotten. They are not slacking off. They literally just can't do it. Their brain refuses to think about it, their body refuses to move for it. They don't have the willpower or the motivation for it. They are trapped. They are completely unable to make any progress because their brain will not let them.

Here it is you who are taking agency away from ADHD-ers.

Many can, it just takes a lot more effort than for other students/workers.

Things I have seen working:

- restricting oneself heavily so that the work at hand becomes the only possible thing to do

- conjuring up reasons why something is intersting

- pair programming

- various ways of sneaking up to the subject (start by fixing a few small issues, them improve a unit test, then make a small prototype, then take a look at the actual problem in question)

- gamification

- etc

[LoganDark]

> Here it is you who are taking agency away from ADHD-ers.

What do you mean? All the mechanisms you've listed can be ways to help, yes, but you still can't just decide to do those things. You can try to reformat it or place it in some other context where it becomes doable, but these are specific coping mechanisms that shouldn't always be necessary, like they are for someone with severe enough ADHD.

I apologize for implying that all ADHD is that severe, I'll see if I can edit it to be more clear there, but I'm not trying to take agency away; I'm trying to point out how it results in that "time dyslexia", and why it's a disorder (rather than just, say, laziness).

[reitanqild]

> You can try to reformat it or place it in some other context where it becomes doable, but these are specific coping mechanisms that shouldn't always be necessary, like they are for someone with severe enough ADHD

OK, I see, I think we agree very much here.

[coldtea]

>As someone with ADHD, this wildly misrepresents the actual disorder. ADHD itself has nothing to do with time, it has to do with executive function. Someone with ADHD can try to will themselves into doing something and simply not be able to.

That's misleading. ADHD does involve executive function issues, as it does other issues, including sensory issues like noise and light sensitivity (that have nothing to do with executive function), issues with body balance/proprioception (also nothing to do with executive function), issues like rejection sensitivity, as well as time issues ("time blindness").

[otikik]

ADHD presents a variety of symptoms, not the same ones for everyone. The “H” (“hyperactive”) part in particular often doesn’t manifest (and that’s how many children become undiagnosed adults- hyperactivity is easier to spot). If you don’t have time dislexia, that doesn’t mean that others don’t.

[LoganDark]

> If you don’t have time dislexia, that doesn’t mean that others don’t.

In this case it's important to define what "time dyslexia" even is. I was talking about how the phrase didn't accurately describe ADHD symptoms, but you seem to be talking about a third thing that does have a concrete definition. What definition is that?

[devbent]

Random question,

Do all of you have ADHD? If not, that would be... Surprisingly I guess but also kind of hopeful.

[LoganDark]

Do you mean all of my dissociative identities? The answer is yes. DID can result in individual identities having different access to certain parts of the brain (for example, certain identities could have aphantasia while others have vivid imaginations), but as far as I'm aware, ADHD is a problem with the brain's reward system itself (the one that has to do with dopamine), so it affects the entire brain function, no matter which part.

However, I've been in situations where different identities can do things that I can't (i.e. switch in order to get out of bed in the morning), so I don't think anything is necessarily set in stone...

[reitanqild]

Hi again, and thanks for your website about plurality.

I am not affected but I am aware of at least one person who seemed to be affected and it was really really interesting to read.

[LoganDark]

> thanks for your website about plurality

Not mine :)

[throwaway47bs6]

Ahem. That's what yours is. Mine is straight-up time defiance. I stopped caring about clocks and deadlines. You speak for yourself: attentional difference is a cluster, not a fixed set of symptoms and behaviours.

Another example, I'm not short of motivation. It's just there are so many interesting things to work on.

[LoganDark]

> That's what yours is.

No, it's not just what mine is. It agrees with the clinical definition of ADHD, with the experiences of all who I have spoken to about it, including many friends, with multiple[0] articles[1] describing[2] the disorder[3], and so on.

Your time defiance is a symptom of a deeper problem. While I can't guarantee it's the exact same problem that I have, your disorder is certainly not just "time defiance", and if it truly is ADHD, the root of it will be executive dysfunction, as that is what defines the disorder.

[0]: https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html

[1]: https://cohost.org/cathoderaydude/post/862603-when-writing-a...

[2]: https://invisibleup.com/articles/27/

[3]: https://www.autostraddle.com/you-need-help-your-adhd-is-fcki...

> For example, I'm not short of motivation. It's just there are so many interesting things to work on.

I could say the same thing. But I can't choose which thing I work on. I want to draw. I want to code. I have hundreds of unfinished projects I could have finished. I have hundreds of abandoned hobbies I could have stayed with. Sure I have "motivation", but it's motivation to do whatever catches my interest at the moment, not motivation to do any of the things that I actually want to do.

[fragmede]

time blindness is a real problem! it's not all of the problem, but it's a problem.

[perilunar]

> time dyslexia

AKA "time blindness", though I think "dyschronia" would be a better term, to match with dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia, and dysgraphia.

(I think I also have it, though undiagnosed. Three of my last four web projects have been a clock, another clock, and a timeline. I still have a terrible problem with procrastination.)

[corobo]

Having my watch nudge me on the hour has improved my perception of time immensely

[reitanqild]

Thanks! Will try something along the lines.

When I am in flow state however something more drastic might be needed : )

[corobo]

Hah, I also make heavy usage of Todoist and notifications.

Got an old tablet on a cheapy plastic arm held above my monitor dedicated to my task list when working. It's set up to get my attention as and when tasks need starting.

Bit of a balancing act between having it make enough noise/vibrate to get my attention and not vibrating itself off its perch and making me jump out of my skin :)