[throw0101b]

> They exist for a reason. Some people have more to haul than just groceries.

What in daily life is different in the last ~20 years (when SUVs have grown popular), compared to the ~20 years before that (when minivans were a thing), compared to the ~20 years before that (when station wagons were a thing)?

Further, how often is the 'extra' hauling occurring? Why do you need to drive such a thing daily when the haulage is much less often than that? Wouldn't it save people cost (especially in gas, which everyone in the US seems to whinge about) by driving a more efficient vehicle for the most common case of the daily commute and simple weekend errands? (Renting when something 'extra' is needed.)

Further, what percentage of SUVs (and cross-overs/CUVs) actually have towing hitches to haul things? And for carrying things inside, how many SUVs have more internal volume that a minivan?

SUVs, especially the larger varieties, don't seem optimal for anything except vanity. (Speaking as someone who owns a Golf and who borrowed his parents' minivan almost every weekend as a teenager.)

[rickydroll]

the last truck I had was a Toyota mini pickup. used it frequently on weekends hauling support equipment for dog field events, supplies for rebuilding my house, and telescope kit for observing sessions miles from home.

It was cheaper to by my own pickup and use it everyday than buy a car and rent a pickup on the weeks. when you add the hassle of pickup and drop-off an time pressure to return before you accrue another day charge, owning was definitely cheaper

today, pickups are pillow princess trucks. no scratches, clean bed, no mud.

I am missing my little Toyota. Today, I need to haul plywood, 2x4s, foam board insulation and fiberglass panels for some home projects I was hoping to start today. I instead of using my truck, I have to spend 100+ to rent a body to bring the parts here sometime in the next week and damage them in transit.

[pandaman]

Minivans are not small, if you have problems with the SUV size then why is a minivan suddenly okay? It's the same size car with a differently styled body and without towing capacity. E.g. Toyota Sienna is the same width and length as BMW X7 and less than 4" shorter in height. And Chrysler Pacifica is longer and wider than either of these (also less than 3" shorter in height than X7). And X7 is a big SUV that I rarely see, most SUVs on the streets around me are something like Toyota RAV4, which is half foot narrower than Pacifica, shorter in length more than a foot and shorter in height than any of the above.

[throw0101b]

> Minivans are not small, if you have problems with the SUV size then why is a minivan suddenly okay?

Forward visibility for one. There's a meme going around that even main battle tanks (and semi rigs) have better forward visibility than some pick-ups trucks:

* https://carbuzz.com/news/the-abrams-m1-tank-has-better-visib...

And for all that external size, how much internal storage space do you get in a large SUV like the X7? If SUVs are allegedly for carrying stuff, how much stuff can you get in (with and without folding down seats)? How easy is it for people (esp. adults, and not just children) to get back to the third row, and how comfortable is it back there for them?

> Toyota RAV4

Now we're talking about a different class of vehicle than SUVs. Will you also compare it to the glorified hatchback (not even station wagon) that is the BMW X1?

[pandaman]

SUVs are not pickup trucks though and have better visibility of the road ahead (due to higher eye level and higher headlights) than cars and minivans.

As for internal storage, I am content with the internal storage in a midsize SUV already. Third row in X7 is pretty cramped, if you are regularly driving 7 adults around you better get something with more seating capacity, few people need that IME.

[neurostimulant]

Instead of comparing with modern minivan, you should compare them with minivan from 20 years ago since that's what GP was talking about. In my region, minivans from 20 years ago are smaller than new SUVs today.

[pandaman]

Sure, even compact cars 20 years ago were smaller than compact cars today. You cannot practically suggest people drive 20-30 y.o. vehicles, for one there are not enough of those.

[bumby]

>when station wagons were a thing

Just some interesting context, the original SUVs were station wagons. The big Suburbans/Wagoneers/Broncos/Blazers of the 70s and 80s were classified as station wagons. In addition, many of the station wagons back in the day got horrible gas mileage (many had the same engine size as their SUV counterparts).

Beyond that, the idea that people would be choose to have multiple cars for different aspects is a bit out of touch. The majority of Americans can't spring for a $1k emergency repair, let alone have another car payment just for a grocery getter. Most people need one car that can do most everything they need. Even if they could afford more than one car, your premise doesn't make sense. How many miles would have to be driven for a $20k used car purchase to have a positive economics based on its fuel savings?

[kcplate]

> when station wagons were a thing

my “big” SUV is smaller in length but larger in interior space and gets 5x further a gallon of gas than the station my parents drove in the ‘70s.