[vintagedave]

Thanks for the reply. I agree nature is uncivilised. That's why I think they _are_ things to be moved past: we are not unthinking slaves to nature, but creatures who, through cognition and growth, can rise above base instincts.

I won't argue it's naive to think we'd move past war or hate - I agree with your assessment of myself there :) But I can believe that we should, and further that we have the capacity to, even it may be unlikely that we will.