[rudyfink]

If by "reform" you mean weaken class actions, I would argue that is a bad idea.

Larger businesses have already gone to great lengths to eliminate / curtail class actions.

I'd argue that this weakening is the root cause of a chunk of the aggregate problems I see discussed on HN.

It is in a company's interest to harm a great many people a little bit because the people often have to challenge the company as individuals rather than as a group. And the economics often make no sense in that way, so the company is functionally immune to the effects of its harm.

Further weakening the remaining viability of that case type stands to only encourage companies to commit more aggregate harms.

[underwater]

In other countries this is addressed by government regulation. The US prefers to use class action lawsuits and punitive damages.

[robertlagrant]

Businesses aren't trying to harm. They aren't a Mao or a Stalin just going for The Greater Good no matter how many people they have to kill. They're trying to make a profit, and sometimes horribly unethical people in those businesses will not care about harm in order to make a profit. But the goal isn't harm.

[rudyfink]

To be clear, I was not suggesting the intent was harm for harm's sake. I was suggesting that it was in the company's/businesses' interest to harm. I agree that, often, that interest is framed as making profit, but it can also be framed as reducing cost, not having to care, etc.

The bigger point is that such an incentive exists and that it is further incentivized if the individuals who are harmed are deprived of a mechanism to resist.

[robertlagrant]

> framed as making profit, but it can also be framed as reducing cost

Reducing cost does increase profit. Profit is (basically) revenue minus cost.

> The bigger point is that such an incentive exists and that it is further incentivized if the individuals who are harmed are deprived of a mechanism to resist.

Of course. Russia is invading Ukraine right now, as causing harm can benefit you, if you don't care about harm. This isn't a business thing; it's a people thing.

It's just that the blast radius of a business's harm is much smaller than a state's, and it's possible to shape rules so that profit incentives line up (even better) with harm minimisation. There's no harm minimisation you can do when a power-hungry person gets into a political position.

[Zigurd]

Future archaeologists will find the global layer of lead in soil, ice, etc. and wonder who these supervillains were and why they were not promptly shot.

[Zigurd]

Tobacco? Asbestos? Leaded gasoline? Uncontained mining tailings and failures of tailings piles? Oil w.r.t. global warming? They are working to continue harm. As if I accidentally stabbed someone and decided the best next step is to stab deeper.

[robertlagrant]

This doesn't argue against the point I was making.

[Zigurd]

When I say "They are working to continue harm." I mean that yes, they are trying to harm. Intending to harm. Knowingly. Almost always knowing it before the public knows it.

[tremon]

How is "we're trying to make a profit here, we do not care about harm" any different than Mao's or Stalin's "we're doing it for The Greater Good, we do not care about harm"?

[Zigurd]

Stalin wasn't a Libertarian. More on the Effective Altruism spectrum.