[boeingUH60]

I’m not buying this but sure, we Africans never take responsibility. We’ll first blame the other tribe, then the country next to us, then long-gone colonial powers, and finally the devil when we run out of excuses.

As if it’s not our leaders selling out the country to foreign interests for pocket change. Maybe they could pick up a book from Lee Kuan Yew and learn how he rejected a bribe from the CIA.

[camdat]

And these leaders are all fairly and democratically elected?

Without the influence of the money of former colonial states (or their puppets in the form of expropriative enterprises)?

Consider the trillions of dollars made by other countries from Africa's people and resources. Why _wouldnt_ they spend a fraction of that killing any chance that a cultural movement picks up.

This isn't fantasy, Nestle, Chiquita, etc have a long history of funding anti-revolutionary agencies for exactly this reason.

One man rejecting one bribe will do nothing, a single cup cannot drain an ocean.

[boeingUH60]

I wonder why those rich Middle Eastern petro states aren’t being controlled and kept poor by the Western powers if that’s the case.

We can all go back to the past and find excuses of how someone did bad and blame them for the present even if they’re long gone…we Africans are very good at that.

What we’re not good at is ever taking responsibility for f**ing once instead of blaming invisible conspiracists hiding in thin air.

[Der_Einzige]

You’re getting these responses because Americans have been trained Pavlovian style to never ever claim that some cultures are better than others. This is despite most, including those who think they don’t, implicitly believing this

[churchill]

And it's annoying like hell when I (a Nigerian) try to explain to an European/African how I can't move an inch without paying a bribe and they tell you to focus on the bright side or abstract notions like the diversity of the continent, blah blah blah.

Most African countries got independence in the 1940 - 1970s. Israel was established in 1948, while Singapore became independent in 1967. While most African states busied themselves with denouncing colonialism, playing around with the Soviets, or murdering any ethnic minority that didn't agree with the party line, Singapore went from being a slum to an economic powerhouse; Israel is essentially indispensable to the west as the economic/military intelligence key to the Middle East now.

So, i's hard to celebrate any advancement when we could be much further. Western optimists might feel otherwise, but perspective is everything, I guess?

[kwere]

Singapore is a special case, Korea is more a fair comparison, the country was by most metrics in a worse shape than most (african & non) colonies at the indipendence/civil war. Korea developed well considering its starting position

[maeil]

> Most African countries got independence in the 1940 - 1970s. Israel was established in 1948, while Singapore became independent in 1967. While most African states busied themselves with denouncing colonialism, playing around with the Soviets, or murdering any ethnic minority that didn't agree with the party line, Singapore went from being a slum to an economic powerhouse; Israel is essentially indispensable to the west as the economic/military intelligence key to the Middle East now.

To give two more examples, in 1960 South Korea's GDP/Capita was similar to Sudan and significantly lower than Taiwan's which was similar to Northern African countries (Tunisia, Morocco). Algeria was much richer than either, I assume thanks to oil.

[alephnerd]

Singapore had a much stronger base than any other Asian country other than Hong Kong in the mid-20th century.

Singapore was one of the richest Asian countries on a GDP per Capita basis in 1960. It was comparable to other middle income countries in that era like Southern Europe and South America [0].

LKY talking about Singapore as if it was a third world hell hole is just disingenuous PR to make the PAP look much more impressive. Even Taiwan and South Korea were much poorer than Singapore back then, but they've both caught up to Singapore by 2023. In fact, if you compare Singapore with other cities in first world Asia, then it's largely been outpaced by Seoul and Tokyo.

[0] https://cepr.net/documents/publications/econ_growth_2005_11_...

[mips_r4300i]

Is this a form of moral relativism where everyone and everything must have equal intrinsic value?

What if we argue a 1971 Ford Pinto is actually just a good a car as a 2003 Honda Civic. Sure, it's old, the fuel tanks rupture in an accident, and it had the largest recall in automotive history, but at least it was affordable, allowing societal mobility?

What is this phenomenon called?

[camdat]

I'm curious which cultures you believe are worst than others?

Which one is the worst?

[churchill]

Radical Islam for one is rabidly anti-intellectual. The only conservative Muslim countries that are anything to write home about are oil-rich and have extremely small populations.

As a result, it's easy for the government to subsidize their citizens heavily and build lots of shiny skyscrapers to attract western tourists without developing human capital significantly.

Call me Islamophobic but I say this as a Nigerian, living in a country with the largest Muslim population in Africa (second-largest in the world after Indonesia) where people still get lynched and burned for "blasphemy."

[Karrot_Kream]

Radical religious groups are always rabidly anti-intellectual. The better question to ask is why there are so many more radical Muslims than radical Christians. That's where I think a wider view is important.

[camdat]

I never said they would be kept poor.

I also wonder why none of those Petro states are bastions of democracy and cultural excellence

[alephnerd]

Because a generation ago they were undeveloped/developing countries.

Saudi in 1990 had developmental indicators comparable to Bangladesh (a country that is still counted as a less developed country by the WB and IMF).

In 2023, it now has developmental indicators comparable to Poland or Czechia.

In 1990, the UAE had developmental indicators comparable to South Africa today.

In 2023, the UAE has developmental indicators comparable to the US, Israel, and Japan.

It takes time to build democracy as a developing country

[argentinian]

The same description can be applied to many South American countries.