[marcus0x62]

They also involved a not-insignificant risk to the employee in the event of bankruptcy, or losing their job before eligibility for full retirement. A close relative put in more than 20 years at Eastern Airlines.

He collects less than 10 cents on the dollar from the PBGC backstop since Eastern went bankrupt.

> So a story was made up that "you can do better on your own investing in the market"

In his case, that story was true. After Eastern, he took a job at FedEx. FedEx killed their pension plan and the employees largely had to save for retirement via 401k accounts. He lives off of that money quite nicely now. The Eastern pension buys him a nice dinner once a month or so.

[PaulDavisThe1st]

This is an issue with the way corporate pensions are/were run, not the basic concept. The fact the the pension fund members got shafted in favor of other creditors is a detail that also stems mostly from, well, not exactly Republican political philosophy, but capitalism itself (in the sense that it is a system predicated on the concept that the rewards of human ventures go primarily to those who invest capital rather than labor or ideas).

Certainly the facts are not contestable: plenty of corporate bankruptcies left their employee's pension funds screwed in a way that does not happen with a 401k plan. But it didn't have to be that way, it was a choice (of our legal, political and economic system). Other countries have made different choices, for examples.

[marcus0x62]

Sure, if the facts were totally different, the resulting circumstances would be different as well. But they aren't, and your thesis that these circumstances were principally caused by Republicans is supported by no evidence that I can find.

If you look at the history of the 401k, specifically, which you originally claimed was some sort of republican conspiracy to generate asset management revenue for financial firms, you'll see more Democrats than Republicans involved. For instance, the law that created section 401(k) of the internal revenue code was passed by a congress where Democrats maintained a majority in both houses, and was signed into law by a Democrat (Jimmy Carter.) In the intervening years, every single Democratic president has supported (or strengthened) the status quo. Bill Clinton signed SIMPLE plans into law, Obama championed the "MyRA" thing bolted onto the side of IRAs, etc.