[linuxontheweb]

Ahh... my two favorite tech-related subject matters: Linux distros and the politics of browser choice. I'm currently trying to invert this entire discussion by putting a well-oiled Linux distro inside of the browser [1].

[1] For whoever doubts that a proper Linux distro can be created through pure Javascript running in a browser, you obviously haven't tried out https://linuxontheweb.github.io/ yet!

[nonameiguess]

I don't know that anybody doubts this, but until you can run a browser as a UEFI boot option, you've just created a third layer of choice without doing anything to solve the first two.

[linuxontheweb]

Wouldn't launching a browser within a bare-bones X11 session in some kind of kiosk mode during system initialization be a proper solution?

[qweqwe14]

You need to have an operating system to run a browser, unless you want to make a browser on bare-metal. I don't think you currently understand the topic very well.

Your project is essentially an incomplete implementation of a shell where all commands are builtins, and the interactivity is limited by what you directly programmed in JavaScript.

What you are trying to make is a lot harder than you think, you first need to emulate a CPU and go from there, not read whatever user types and try to behave like a Linux system, which ChatGPT can do already.

[theblazehen]

How does it work?

What shell it is using? It doesn't seem POSIXy (eg I can't `echo $$` to see the shell pid), and the filesystem is pretty bare

[linuxontheweb]

Everything is mainly just my own handcrafted Javascript. There is only one wasm module included so far (binjgb) to allow for the playing of gameboy games.

I've previously tried to implement all of those sorts of POSIX-isms, but I've recently been wanting to make the tradeoff where code simplicity and understandability trumps all other considerations. Then, when others start coming on board the project, we can start making determinations about what kinds of "proper" shell functions to support.

So, at this point, "bare yet dependable" is what I'm going for! You can actually get more feedback about the filesystem through the desktop interface. You can show an icon cursor by pressing the 'c' key, and then move it over a file icon. Then, just press the 'p' key to show the properties of the file.

Help page here: https://linuxontheweb.github.io/www/docs/help.html

[qweqwe14]

Sorry but what I think you've done is just emulating a shell, not an actual Linux system. For that, you need to emulate some architecture that Linux supports, like x86/RISC-V/ARM. With that you should be able to boot a real Linux kernel.

One guy even made a RISC-V emulator inside VRChat using a shader[1]. Doing it in JavaScript will probably be easier, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone has done that already.

Until you emulate a CPU architecture and boot an actual Linux kernel, it isn't quite fair IMO to call it "Linux".

[1] https://blog.pimaker.at/texts/rvc1/

[reitanuki]

Fabrice Bellard has JSLinux to boot actual Linux in a web browser: https://bellard.org/jslinux/

Cool stuff

[linuxontheweb]

Well, there is technically no such thing as an "actual Linux system." There are mainly GNU/Linux systems. If one is using the word "Linux" from a high-level systems theoretical perspective, the they are speaking about a certain philosophy related to how they approach the question of performing general computations. So, it is from the "Unix philosophical" point of view that I use the word "Linux." This also seems to be the generally accepted way of using that word, because most people use it as a shorthand for something with much more cultural significance (i.e. the open source alternative to the Windows or Mac ecosystems) than the kinds of technical facts to which you are referring.

[messe]

> There are mainly GNU/Linux systems

And yours contains neither GNU nor Linux, or as I’ve taken to calling it -(GNU+Linux).

It would be one thing if you had implemented a binary compatibility layer similar to WSL1, but what you’ve created seems to be a POSIX-like environment on the web.

[qweqwe14]

At the most basic level, Linux means "Linux kernel", which you clearly don't have here. You can't run ELF files, you can't create processes, you can't load kernel modules, in fact the only things you can do are those that you directly emulated in JavaScript, which is a very different experience than interacting with a real Linux distro.

Your project has none of the capabilities that are very much expected when someone mentions "Linux", even in a broader sense.

In fact, I'm pretty sure your shell doesn't have some most basic abilities that a POSIX shell has (as another comment mentioned). See the manual page of e.g. dash shell and see what I'm talking about.

Emulating a shell can be fun, but it's clearly not the same as running an operating system. You should probably clarify that in the project README to avoid misinformation. Because otherwise, your project claims to be what it's obviously not.

[linuxontheweb]

Well, although I certainly can get enjoyment through never-ending hours of coding, I am mainly doing this project to get something to actually work.

I would tend to look at this project as an implementation rather than an emulation.

The current implementation of the shell is certainly in a highly bare bones state, but that can definitely change over time if that is in fact where the development process leads. If it gets to the point of being able to quack like a POSIX shell, then who's to say that it isn't really one?

[bee_rider]

Why not just call your system Unix on the web, if it is more borrowing from the Unix philosophy?

I don’t know what the Linux philosophy is. I think it is the kernel of choice for GNU based systems because it existed and was open enough to use, while Hurd was more philosophical (to the point where, when it was needed, it existed more as an idea than a thing).

Linux is where it is because they make pragmatic decisions when when necessary.