[justinclift]

Hmmm, "gas station filled with petrol that explodes" vs "gas station filled with hydrogen that explodes".

Being near either one as it explodes would be bad, but I wonder which one looks more impressive movie-effects-wise? :)

[sfink]

In my limited understanding, neither one really explodes. The petrol one would look like a huge impressive fireball that launches a big black mushroom cloud and then just burns like crazy. The hydrogen one, if the hydrogen is fairly pure, would be like a big faint blue wispy fireball, not all that impressive.

If there were an oxidizer in the mix somehow, it would be rather more explosive.

[anon_cow1111]

The issue with hydrogen is that it has a fairly wide combustion range (meaning the ratio of fuel/air that can burn), I can't remember the numbers but it's several times greater than other common fuels. The other issue with hydrogen is that the combustion happens VERY fast... if you ignite gasoline vapor/air in an open 5-gallon jug, you have a nice rocket that'll fly 50 feet or so. If you ignite hydrogen/air in the same jug, you have permanent hearing damage and shards of plastic embedded in you.

[amluto]

If the hydrogen is fairly pure and the amount is question is small, then sure: combustion will happen at the hydrogen-air interface. If it mixes with air before ignition, then it can burn all a once, and Wikipedia informs me that “the limits of detonability of hydrogen in air are 18.3% to 59% by volume.”. Yes, it will literally detonate with supersonic flame velocity.

I once got to watch some moderately crazy students fill an ordinary party balloon with a stoichiometric mix of hydrogen and oxygen at ambient temperature and pressure. When it was ignited, the result was extremely impressive. No one was injured (because we were all warned to protect our ears and open our mouths and balloons don’t produce significant shrapnel), but the shock wave was not at all subtle.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_safety

[sfink]

My dad did this once. He drained the acid from a car battery and put it in a container with a narrow opening, then dropped in a bunch of zinc galvanized nails. Sulfuric acid + zinc = hydrogen gas. He then stretched balloons over the mouth of the container to inflate them, tied them up, and attached a strip of newspaper to the bottom. Finally, he lit the bottom of the newspaper on fire and let it go. Balloon floats up, makes pretty fireball.

We ran into two problems. First, a number of the flames blew out on their way up. No fireball.

Second, we ran out of balloons pretty fast. So he cast around for ideas, and decided to fall back on a box of condoms. They held a lot more hydrogen than the balloons.

They were also equally likely to go out before blowing up. I always imagined them coming down on someone's lawn, causing no end of confusion.

[DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! And if you're tempted, there's one thing I left out that's necessary for it to work properly, and the only thing I'll say about it is this warning: https://sciencenotes.org/add-acid-to-water-or-water-to-acid/ ]

[amluto]

That’s not the same thing, though — your dad forgot the oxygen! A balloon full of approximately pure hydrogen makes a nice fireball but doesn’t really explode — the same group that made the exploding balloon I watched also did one of those.

The stoichiometric premixed balloon is only 2/3 H2 by volume, so it releases 1/3 less energy, but it’s a whole different experience when the energy is released essentially all at once. Interestingly, there was no noticeable fireball from the premixed balloon.

A premixed H2+air balloon probably makes a fine explosion, too :)

[sfink]

> That’s not the same thing, though — your dad forgot the oxygen!

Oh, I'm quite aware. The other fun game we played was with his acetylene welding torch and balloons. It has separately controlled tanks of acetylene and oxygen. Acetylene only = nice big fireball. Acetylene + oxygen = no fireball at all, instead a very loud boom + a bit of a shockwave.

[amluto]

A quick search for higher heating values suggests that acetylene and hydrogen gasses have fairly similar HHV per mole of oxidizer. (H2 needs 1/2 equivalent or O2; acetylene needs 5/2 equivalents, so H2 wins by a bit.)

But H2 takes up most of the space in the balloon, and acetylene is nice and compact, so considerably more total energy should be available with acetylene!

I don’t know whether oxyacetylene will detonate nicely, though, or whether a balloon-sized oxyacetylene mix will merely combust subsonically.

[ben_w]

Why is having open mouths important?

[adrianN]

Less pressure on your eardrums if the shock wave reaches them from both sides.

[ben_w]

Ah. So holding my eustachian tubes open (half way through a yawn) would also be a good idea?

[justinclift]

Cool, thanks. :)

[colechristensen]

Hydrogen is way worse than gasoline or any hydrocarbon. It has to be stored at very high pressures and there’s no practical situation in which it doesn’t explode.