[eesmith]

Remember, this started from markjonsona989's comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38036615 :

"I have to say I don't understand Elon's (Tesla's) reaction here. Surely he was advised on Swedish and EU laws and how things work over here before he decided to do business in Sweden?"

I read this as an statement of surprise or astonishment based in the belief that Tesla should know more about labor relations in the EU, but for some reason does not appear so.

My comments were not concerning Tesla. They were to clarify why the law is relevant, in response to your comment "I was thrown off by you bringing up the law, as it were relevant" at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38036925 .

[s1artibartfast]

>I read this as an statement of surprise or astonishment based in the belief that Tesla should know more about labor relations in the EU, but for some reason does not appear so.

This is the sentiment I am pushing back on. It seems very arrogant for amateur internet posters to think they know more than the tesla legal team and tesla management team after reading about the topic for 2 minutes.

It is fine to not understand the tesla position, and fine to not not agree with with the morality.

I just dont think it is reasonable for people to assume they are more knowledgeable about the detail simply because they dont understand or agree.

It reduces to "I dont understand their actions, so they must be stupider than me", which I think is a foolish response, but unfortunately quite common.

Tesla is the one with access to their cost modeling for hiring scabs and the legal team. They know the long term costs of union agreements, and if they spread to other countries. They have teams of lawyers.

But no, surely some posters are quick to believes they have a better understanding of the tradeoffs Tesla faces.

[eesmith]

> It seems very arrogant for amateur internet posters to think they know more than the tesla legal team and tesla management team after reading about the topic for 2 minutes.

It seems par for the course for internet posters.

> I just dont think it is reasonable for people to assume they are more knowledgeable

I think the position is "this does not make sense, and I am surprised they did this."

> so they must be stupider than me

Even setting aside how they might be playing 4D chess while us chumps are playing tic-tac-toe, "stupity" is quite different from "ill-informed". It is also different from "arrogant".

Was McDonald's "stupid" in trying to enter Denmark as they did?

> They know the long term costs of union agreements, and if they spread to other countries.

How do you know that?

IF Metall also has lawyers and cost modeling, and more experience with the Swedish labor market.

Aren't you being arrogant in thinking that after 2 minutes of reading about the topic that you know better than them?

Tesla "claims that it doesn't sign collective bargaining agreements anywhere in the world" - are you really sure that decision was made with lawyers present who understood the Swedish labor market?

> some posters are quick to believes they have a better understanding of the tradeoffs Tesla faces.

Saying "it does not make sense" does not imply the person making the opinion has a better understanding, only that it does not make sense.

[s1artibartfast]

>How do you know that?

I havent seen them personally, but IF Metall gave them a list of demands, so they at least have something.

>IF Metall also has lawyers and cost modeling, and more experience with the Swedish labor market.Aren't you being arrogant in thinking that after 2 minutes of reading about the topic that you know better than them?

Im not making any judgement on IF Metall is right, wrong, or misinformed about anything. I assume they are much more informed than I am, about Swedish law, practice, and Tesla's interests.

>Tesla "claims that it doesn't sign collective bargaining agreements anywhere in the world" - are you really sure that decision was made with lawyers present who understood the Swedish labor market?

I do note that IF Metall didnt make any public statements that it is illegal to bring in strikebreakers. Also, "we wont sign union contracts" isnt a statement on the law. It is a statement about what they do or will do.

> some posters are quick to believes they have a better understanding of the tradeoffs Tesla faces.

>Saying "it does not make sense" does not imply the person making the opinion has a better understanding, only that it does not make sense.

I totally agree, but that is not the only thing I read in these posts. There is usually criticism along the lines of "statement of surprise or astonishment based in the belief that Tesla should know more about labor relations in the EU, but for some reason does not appear so."

The simplest explanation is that they do know about labor relations in the EU, but dont care, are willing to take a risk, think they can change things, or are willing to walk away.