[RandomLensman]

Companies are totally entitled to stick to the law, but they also need to then deal with the fact that narrow compliance with the law might bring them into conflict with parts of society (who in turn might stick to the law in dealing with them).

That said, we already have determined that generally just "sticking to the law" isn't a great defense in all situations anyway.

[mytailorisrich]

In a free society based on the rule of law, you cannot demand that anyone goes beyond the law. That's a key principle.

Now, as mentioned, in business other parties can also use their legal rights to bring about negotiations, but let's not depict Tesla as horrible for simply staying within the law...

[RandomLensman]

We have long determined that the rule of law is only one component of a functioning society. There is a lot of stuff beyond the rule of law that makes things work. Anyone not understanding that will have trouble in any society.

[mytailorisrich]

And mob rule is a recipe for a nasty society...

[RandomLensman]

How is that in any way mob rule? Is having care and consideration for your fellow citizens mob rule, for example?

What you want is much closer to mob rule, as seen by societies using the law for horrible purposes. Narrow legalistic views allow for the most horrible atrocities.

[arghwhat]

The proper term is "democracy" when the mob is the majority of a society.

[mytailorisrich]

In a democracy you pass laws and those laws are applied uniformly, and again noone can demand that anyone else goes beyond the law.

[RandomLensman]

People can and do demand that - no sure why that is so difficult to understand. And there could be consequences for legal but nasty behavior and those consequences would also not violate any laws. Societies are more than just narrow legalistic machines and checking completely out of broader society is tough/comes with consequences.

[arghwhat]

This is a complete misunderstanding of what the purpose of a law is and how society works.

Everyone always makes demands that go far above the law. Your legal demand to those around you is "don't murder me, vandalize my things and steal the remains". Your full demand also involves amongst others respectful treatment and consideration, and you don't socialize with those you who treat your poorly even though such treatment was perfectly legal.

The law sets the bar for criminal liability. Society as a whole and its individuals freely set the bar for cooperation. A unionized work force is a social group that has formalized in advance the bar to cooperate with them.

[ben_w]

> you cannot demand that anyone goes beyond the law

Sure you can — "sign this contract to get this result" — just so long as you yourself aren't breaking the law in making the demand.

[mcv]

Would you be happy in a society where everybody lies to you all the time? Lying isn't illegal (except under oath), but it would make for a really shitty society.

You can absolutely expect people to do more than just obey the law. Everybody does. Tesla does not, and that may lead Tesla's employees to use their perfectly legal right to strike. And by your standards, you can't demand that they don't strike, because it's legal.

But it's a shitty basis for a relationship. If Tesla wants its workers to do good work for them, they need to listen to their workers.