[maxehmookau]

This kind of nonsense doesn't play well in Europe. Nor should it.

> The company is refusing to sign one, IF Metall has reported, saying that company claims that it doesn't sign collective bargaining agreements anywhere in the world.

Welcome to Europe, Elon.

[johnchristopher]

I am not following Tesla things but don't they have factories in Germany and didn't they face the same problem ?

[hnbad]

Tesla tried to keep unions out but apparently IG Metall (the largest and politically most powerful industrial trade union in Germany) announced earlier this month that more than a thousand workers at the Gigafactory Berlin-Brandenburg joined the union: https://www.igmetall.de/im-betrieb/ig-metall-organisiert-tes...

According to the union's statement, a third of all workers is on sick leave at any given time due to workplace injuries. They're also paid below union rate despite claims to the contrary by Tesla management. Tesla also tried to preempt a union recruiting event by giving the workers free pea soup so they'd stay in throughout the lunch break and not talk to the union reps waiting outside the factory.

To me it sounds like the union just got its foot in the door at Tesla Germany and we're not at the point yet where organized action like a strike is feasible. It's worth mentioning that German employment law prohibits a company from hiring temp workers to take over the job of a striking employee, at the threat of a fine of up to €500k. On the other hand, there are strict laws around strikes for workers too, e.g. solidarity strikes are prohibited.

[johnchristopher]

Thanks for the details !

[masklinn]

Have the German unions forced the issue yet?

[Arnt]

The situation is a little different. IIRC Tesla's trying to hire on the cheap here in Germany, and not succeeding very well, and is in... a... let's say a discussion process with the Man about the number of accidents in a Tesla factory.

Such discussions with the Man tend to be quiet, polite and slow at first, but the Man will eventually lose patience. I saw a photo in the newspaper of someone who couldn't discuss his tax issues due to health issues; the photo showed him being wheeled into court in his hospital bed.

[anovikov]

Well he may simply fire all locals and bring in all-foreign staff. What will stop him? Salaries Tesla pay are sufficient for Blue Card or similar permit.

[arghwhat]

They would quickly end up in violation of "Lagen om anställningsskydd". All terminations must adhere to the minimum notice, be objectively justified, and can be appealed in case of unfair dismissal. The employer may be forced to pay up to 36 months of full severance pay.

Firings for reasons not related to individual misbehavior must also be Last-In, First-Out, disallowing replacing employees with those hired after them.

[bogantech]

> What will stop him?

Migrationsverket - who get off on deporting foreign skilled workers at any opportunity.

Seriously they will deport people for minor administrative mistakes made by the employer even if it was years ago and has been remediated.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/freylindsay/2019/02/13/why-swed...

[Y-bar]

And the government is making it even harder for immigrants who work there to stay:

> Even though the salary is in line with the collective agreement, she earns too little when the regulations for being allowed to stay in Sweden are tightened next month.

https://translate.google.com/?sl=sv&tl=en&text=https%3A%2F%2...

[unmole]

Does that apply to workers from say Poland?

[ben_w]

No, for the same reason South Dakota can't deport migrant workers from Washington back to their home state.

[masklinn]

> Well he may simply fire all locals and bring in all-foreign staff. What will stop him?

Other unions blackballing Tesla, and getting it fired as a customer. Good luck building cars when you can’t buy parts, or electricity.

That would also have a high chance of escalating the issue from a labor dispute to a legal and political concern.

[unmole]

> Good luck building cars

Tesla doesn't build cars in Sweden. And Sweden accounts for a whopping 3% of Tesla's worldwide sales.

[hef19898]

Yeah, because Tesla doesn't care about those 3%...

[unmole]

Yeah, because Elon Musk is known for financial prudence and not getting into petty fights.

[hef19898]

You have a point there.

[einpoklum]

Well, if that is even legal in Sweden (I'm not sure) - the striking workers could _physically_ stop this. And then there would be the question of the statutory limitations on Swedish state involvement in labor disputes.

(And the union could also get in touch with such hires and explaining the situation to them, which is also likely to be somewhat effective in deterring this sort of scabbing.)

[Arnt]

In .no the visa application process involves a form where the prospective employer states that we tried and failed to find employees in the country. I've written justification prose for that form. I would be astonished if there isn't a similar form in Sweden.

[yaris]

Last time I dealt with this in Sweden there was a similar form. There was also a form that should certify that the offered salary is not below the "industry level" - which in many industries is set by unions. Also a form that the employee candidate should submit to Migrationsverket (this concerned only non-EU candidates) contained data about life and health insurance companies/contracts that cover expenses in case of injuries and such, so that Migrationsverket could (and sometimes did) check if the named companies exist.

[oblio]

This kind of thing would ring all alarm bells at all political levels, though.

I doubt any Swedish political party could stay in power if moves like these are allowed.

[viblo]

There are a couple of different ways the union might "fight" (not sure of the english term). They can block things physically, like standing around the shop to prevent people in/out. They can also expand the strike outside Teslas shops, for example to transportation companies supplying parts to Tesla etc.

Given how core this question is to the Swedish Unions and Sweden in general, I expect it would be very easy to get support for many wide-reaching actions both from other unions and from the public. (For example, there's no minimum salary in Sweden, instead the companies & unions are supposed to handle it)

Here's a reasonable description (google translated) about what might happen: https://www-svensktnaringsliv-se.translate.goog/sakomraden/a...

[ben_w]

Blue Card is 1.5x gross average local salary. Rather annoyingly, googling this gives me a headline answer of "SEK 57,450 per month" that doesn't actually correspond to any of the actual results following this (many of which aren't for this year anyway).

Also odd (given that it's in the news), I can't get search results telling me what Tesla is currently paying, nor what higher level of pay the union is asking for.

[sakjur]

Downloading TM Sweden AB's fiscal report for 2022 (årsredovisning), under "Not 7" there is costs for staff and average number of staff for 2021 and 2022:

2022: 289 full-time equivalent employees, 133MSEK salaries. 2021: 220 full-time equivalent employees, 101MSEK salaries.

Both seem to come out to an average of around 38 KSEK/month (~€3250). I'd suspect the mechanics to have the lowest salary in the organization, so probably somewhat lower than that. But that's pure speculation on my behalf.

It could be a matter of coincidence due to hiring of more staff in more junior positions or so, but the lack of salary increases from year to year could be more interesting to the union (the unions typically have a percentage "mark" salary bump in the collective agreement that you're guaranteed every year). That is also speculative.

[Cthulhu_]

> What will stop him?

Right-wing anti-immigration / self-protection politics, just like in the US. The weird conundrum between being economically liberal ("bring in cheap foreign workers") while politically conservative ("own people first").

[PedroBatista]

Your comment would be a nice Twitter meme.

In a post-Trump era it almost makes perfect sense, but the world doesn’t work according to the internal talk inside a MBA’s head ( yet ). In other words, just go to the location and make your theory work, I’ll wait..