[inglor_cz]

"Mass transit is the solution."

I spent most of my 45 years of age in public transport, I only had a car for a year and a half (and a total lemon, I don't miss that). Yet I say: beware of people who speak of THE solution.

For mass transit to work, population density matters. At least in the EU, there is a trend of people being priced out of capital cities to the surrounding countryside, where the population density drops to levels where providing extensive bus service becomes uneconomical. An important limitation is availability of bus drivers. People are loath to take lives of 40 strangers in their hands + rise out of their beds at 4am, and you can only pay them so much before exhausting the budget. And it is not just question of "more money". Prague, the capital of Czechia, spends about 33 per cent of its municipal budget on public transport and it still has a shortage of drivers.

Reliable self-driving, which was the original topic of this discussion, would be a huge boon to public transport. It would reduce hourly costs and address the driver shortage (which becomes especially acute in flu season etc., where too many people call in sick at the same time).

For mass transit to work better, we need to increase population density, and that means killing of the NIMBY phenomenon. Plenty of people, at least where I live, don't mind living in condos, as long as these are safe and clean. They are just priced out of cities by lack of development and the consequent soaring of prices.

Edit: interesting that this post attracted two downvotes, but no rebuttals. Is public transport such a sacred object for some?

From my personal point of view, it is a service like any other, and obviously cannot work efficiently everywhere.

[defrost]

> Reliable self-driving would be a huge boon to public transport.

Public transport would also be a huge boost to reliable self driving .. some years of only having to follow already established routes is a perfect middle step to self driving everywhere.

Vehicles can be tuned to the specific trouble spots of specific routes, there is a reduced need to deal with unfamiliar routes, in a number of cities public buses have established right of way | dedicated bus lanes, there's a pool drivers who can be migrated from driving a single bus to remote over watch of several buses, etc.

[rrrrrrrrrrrryan]

This is what I've always imagined.

Self-driving vans, with all the fancy LIDAR, where people hop on and hop off, that only drives on specific paths that have been excruciatingly mapped and well-worn.

Basically a little bus without a driver that can adjust its route on the fly.

As a user, you'd be able to get picked up a little closer to your location rather than having to walk to "The Bus Stop", you wouldn't be at the mercy of a set schedule, and it would be much cheaper than a taxi/rideshare because IIRC 70% of their cost is the human labor, and the cost is not split among multiple individuals.

Crucially, they would also use our existing road infrastructure, so you don't have to lay down train tracks, streetcar lines, build dedicated bus lanes, etc.

[fragmede]

> Plenty of people, at least where I live, don't mind living in condos, as long as these are safe and clean.

And quiet. The biggest problem is noise pollution causing problems. I want to watch my TV or listen to music at an enjoyable level while also not disturbing my neighbors. The problem with the US is the incentives are not aligned to make sound proofing a requirement, making for bad living conditions and bad neighbors.

[rrrrrrrrrrrryan]

This is a massive issue with newer builds. They often look sleek and impressive, which is what moves units, but they completely cheap out on soundproofing and insulation.

I think there's going to be greater awareness about noise pollution in the coming decade or so (it's hugely detrimental to human health), and it's worth paying attention to if you're looking to buy a place.

[kilobite88]

You got downvotes because most people are incapable of nuanced thinking, especially on this subject.

Yes public transport is one of the key talismans in the church of the utopian left.

Public transport in the US is in a terrible state and needs to be massively expanded and funded, yet it cannot solve all of the transportation requirements of our massive economy and geography.

[Sakos]

Definitely agree with everything you wrote. I just moved out of a major German city into a small town because I lost my apartment due to Eigenbedarf, then was unable to find a new place in the city at an affordable price in the time I had. Had to get a car again for the first time in 10 years.