[hyggetrold]

> So when we look at "the people" and say this or that is "what they want", something recoils inside me. Do we know that?

The famous (controversial) Indian teacher Osho had a saying on this: "Democracy. Government of the people, by the people, for the people...but the people are retarded."

[bad_user]

We often look down on "the people", but the masses have more wisdom than the elites, even if societal consensus can sometimes lead to terrible solutions to problems.

Democracy is nuanced, much like reality, and this bothers people.

[hyggetrold]

> the masses have more wisdom than the elites

I used to think this way also but in recent times I have become less sure. Maybe the easiest way to explain my thinking is to recall that line from the movie Men in Black: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals, and you know it."

Obviously the truth is way more complex than that but I really do doubt the wisdom of the crowds.

A different example might the guys who wrote up the Constitution of the United States. More people were illiterate than literate back in those days. The founders were a small elite, but they created a framework that has served millions of people for a few hundred years.

In any case, yes, democracy is nuanced. It is the best system despite its flaws. And to be frank, the real issue with democracy is that it's run by people...and hardly any of us walk on water. :)

[TeMPOraL]

I agree, and my take is that the mass of people has, between them, much more "domain wisdom". Different groups have deep understanding of different things. Villagers understand small settlement dynamics; urban dwellers understand towns. People near the sea understand all things related to it; people in grasslands understand nuances of farming better than those in the mountains, etc.

The problem is, you have to reach relevant subgroups to access that wisdom - otherwise, when you're just polling the entire population on a specific topic, well... few subgroups are experts, but everyone has an opinion, so it averages down to "dumb, panicky animals".

[BlueTemplar]

Yeah, it's about how in a monarchy not only can things get way more rotten, but also transitions of power tend to be very bloody (and wasteful) affairs.

[fijiaarone]

It’s not that the masses are so smart, it’s that the “elites” are so mind bogglingly stupid.

[bad_user]

I'd rather not be mistaken for a populist. Certainly elites have been pushing society forward.

Democracy is about accepting the fact that people know their own needs better than everyone else does, and that they should be free to express those needs, and to elect representatives that will fight for those needs. Even when we are talking about an illiterate population.

Personally, given recent times, I think the political axis is bullshit, because the real divide, that's driving polarisation, is between liberalism and autocracy. The allure of autocracy is getting stronger, many feel the need for someone wise to force the plebs into doing things "for their own good". Just one example — vaccination certificates, which in my country did not work, and effectively discriminated against the poor.

I don't know much about the history of US's founding, but until a document becomes culture, it's just a piece of paper to wipe your ass with ;-)