[dewey]

> What if Apple would put all that money back into developing its own search engine?!

They have 50B cash on hand, I don't think the money would be the limiting factor if they wanted to do it or think they are in a position where they could do it.

[jasode]

>They have 50B cash on hand, I don't think the money would be the limiting factor if they wanted to do

Just to provide some ballpark numbers...

Supposedly, Microsoft spent $100 billion on Bing and the CEO Nadella said the most common search query on Bing is "Google".

https://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+spent+%24100+billi...

It's safe to assume Apple executives look at Bing and estimate the costs and potential ROI when considering their own plans for an in-house search engine.

[dewey]

Also they don't have to spend it all at once, they have been crawling the web for a long time already and are not starting from scratch. So far it's just more in the background and integrated into the OS (Siri etc.)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-10-01/could-...

[mminer237]

Bing makes over $11 billion a year now though, so that's not a bad ROI.

[jasode]

>Bing makes over $11 billion a year now though,

That ~$11 billion is revenue not profit. We'd have to compare Bing's lower profit numbers to the various reports ($4-$7 billion? $18 billion?) of Apple payments from Google.

Microsoft doesn't break out profit/loss for Bing in its financial reports so we (as outsiders) can't calculate an ROI. It's probable that Apple has enough inside info from Microsoft to determine if the ROI makes sense for them.

[jprete]

That’s a good point to being up. Apple’s entire pile of cash is just under three years of Google payments. This tells me Apple’s been spending the money on other things. “Replace Google Search” probably isn’t high on their list of priorities, as opposed to Microsoft who seem really intent at it.

[jrochkind1]

It is pretty amazing to realize Apple's oft-commented upon huge pile of cash could be entirely attributed to google payments...

And to me makes it make sense that a company with enough control over search that they can pay other companies 18 billion a year to maintain that control, may be an antitrust issue. I don't actually know much about antitrust law, but it seems like paying competitors to stay out of your business to maintain your monopoly might run afoul of it.

[robocat]

Your argument for control is 180° wrong: Apple has the control and that is why it can demand excessive payment.

I don't understand the stereotypical anti-Google sentiment. Clearly Apple are getting paid an excess amount here because they control the default.

Apple could swap to Bing and few people would notice the difference.

Apple 2022: $99.8 billion profit (over 1 year)

Google Q4 2022: $18.16 billion profit on $76 billion in revenue (over 3 months).

Apple App store profit: The App Store generated US$1.1 trillion in total billings and sales in the App Store ecosystem in 2022, Apple has revealed. More than 90 percent of the billings and sales went to developers and businesses without a commission being taken by Apple. https://itwire.com/it-industry-news/market/apple-s-app-store...

I don't understand the stereotypical anti-Google sentiment. Clearly Apple are getting paid an excess amount here because they control the default.

I use duckduckgo which is backed by Bing. Apple doesn't use Bing because Apple can extract monopoly rents from Google. Who's the bad guy here? 18 billion a year is a lot of money relative to the profits of the companies. For comparison, Apple seems to make more from its searchbox than it does from the App Store (widely regarded as usurous).