[ShadowBanThis01]

I was going to learn Python for the same reason: to create utilities that would run on most any computer. Mostly to do things like file-parsing and data-format conversion.

But the Python ecosystem seems to be such a disappointing mess that I just gave up on the whole idea. I'm learning JavaScript/TypeScript now and you can build CLI programs with Deno.

[cxr]

You don't need Deno if all you're doing is simple utilities for parsing data and making file format converters. The native browser runtime is more than capable on its own—and your users already have it installed; you don't need to bring another vendor's runtime into the equation just to run a JS program—few people are going to have Deno on their computer.

The part of the ecosystem that belongs to Node/Deno branch of the family tree also tends to promote bad practices (while insisting they're good practices), and that's before you get to the part where the runtimes themselves implement quirky/non-standard dialects and APIs. It's not a community that's known for being especially rational or having high standards for intellectual honesty.

If you really want to write stuff that will on most people's computers, target the World Wide Wruntime—write standard JS that the browser won't choke on. You can do it in a way that people are allowed to run it from the command-line if they want but doing so is optional. Here's a 7-part tutorial that explains how: <https://triplescripts.org/example/>

[ShadowBanThis01]

Thanks for that; I'll check it out. I was not talking about using a browser to run anything at all; strictly command-line utilities. (Update: I read much of the first few pages of that triple-script tutorial, and I definitely like the stated goals. Added to reading list!)

Deno has a way to package up the necessary JS runtime and make a self-contained executable. I'm sure it's bloated as hell, but again I don't want to require a browser.

Do you have any examples of said "bad practices" and non-standard dialects? I'm building a server with Deno right now to provide a REST-style API for a mobile app (nothing fancier than CRUD and some push notifications). The contenders for me were PHP 8 and Deno. Since I wanted to learn JavaScript anyway, I went with Deno. So far I've had a decent experience.

[cxr]

> Do you have any examples of said "bad practices" and non-standard dialects?

There's an inexhaustible list. But here are some:

- `require`, `module.exports`, and `.mjs`

- `Buffer`

- Abusing arrow functions and generally going out of one's way to reimplement `this`, poorly

- Closures everywhere (and near zero regard for runtime consequences, i.e. perf incl. memory usage, or legibility of code)

- Abusing `===` (i.e. using it everywhere and yelling at you if you don't—even going so far as to write codestyle bots and other tooling that forces you to change occurrences of `==` to `===` e.g. to get the build to succeed); lines where `===` is used instead of `==` should ideally make up something like less than one half of 1% of your code (generous), if it ever occurs at all

- A whole slew of "My First Experience with Polymorphism and Types™" antipatterns that are unwisely encouraged like `function foo(x) { if (typeof(x) == "string") /* ... */ }` and naive use (i.e. misuse) of `instanceof`, plus a bunch of packages like is-uint8array and/or basically the entirety of the (non-standard) utils.types namespace

[ShadowBanThis01]

Thanks for the reply. Several of these I haven't encountered yet, but I wholeheartedly agree that the uselessness of "==" and insistence on "===" is some amateur-hour junk.

Let's see, what else... yes, I don't see the point of arrow functions. And the reliance on RTTI is just straight-up bad programming in any language.

So what would you choose to write a server in? I'm writing a fairly straightforward server to present a REST-stye API and access a database for a mobile app. I'm doing all this alone, so presumably I'm going to have to rely on at least a few frameworks for "routing" and serialization because I don't think I have time to roll my own.

[cxr]

> the uselessness of "=="

Does not compute.

[DanielHB]

The npm package called "pkg" seems to be the standard for packaging NodeJS applications

https://www.npmjs.com/package/pkg

Unfortunately you also need to bundle all your code into a single file for it to work, but you can use any bundler (webpack, parcel, etc) you want at least