| > Hamas took over Gaza in 2007. Osolo accords was in 1993. That's 20 years of Israel not doing anything to actually give Palestinians a state after they sign the accords. This is pretty detached from the facts. The accord was going well. Then Hamas started blowing up busses, coffee shops and just shooting up restaurants. Thousands died through suicide bombings etc. This drove a stake through the accord. As a result Benjamin Netanyahu used the bombings to rise to power and destroy the remaining chances of a state. He later on explained that he specifically supported the Hamas to destroy the chance of a Palestinian state. He's a terrible person, no doubt. But there were two sides of terrible and he would never have risen to power without the Hamas doing their part. > And it is a fact that the vast majority of Israeli people came from other places That is no longer the case. The vast majority of Jews were born in Israel by this point. I think it stopped being true by the 80s or so. Also this ignores all the Jews chased away from Arab countries after the formation of Israel so this went both ways. > Aren't we past the point of explaining that burning people and beheading people are false claims that even Biden spread? THESE ARE NOT FALSE CLAIMS. I didn't say beheading I said burned alive holding their children. This is a fact. Friends of my spouse were in their house (with 3 little daughters) as it was set on fire. Their village had 450 people. It has under 200 now. These were peace loving people. One of the people there who was kidnapped as an 80 year old guy who used to drive cancer patients from Gaza for treatments in Israeli hospitals. A family living there used to organize an annual event of flight kites next to the border for friendship with the Palestinian people. These are not "settlers" who steal land. They were murdered in the most brutal way possible. Two kids (6 and 9) were hiding in a closet under the body of their mother to survive after their unarmed father was shot. Their 3 year old sister is in Gaza. > But ironically, this is actually happened to Palestinian family by Israeli settlers in west bank in 2015 That is terrible and I'm well aware of that since it was reported a lot in the press. The guy responsible for that was caught and considered a terrorist. He was tortured and gave a confession. He is 100% a Jewish terrorist and he's in prison in isolation. Rightly so. > I have seen a lot of fake photos and claims. I know quite a few people personally. Israel has free press and international journalists were allowed into those regions so they can see. The number of testimonials is huge. Unlike the Hamas which often lies (e.g. in the case of the Hospital in Gaza), Israel tends to have a better record. Not perfect for sure. But much better when it comes to the truth. > Can't we say the same things about Palestinian fighters. Yes we can. Worse. Bibi has let the Hamas run Gaza for decades. Their children programs were remarkably anti-Israeli and insane. > But the Israeli war crime and carpet bombing of Gaza where hundreds of children are dead and thousands are killed is much worse, and what's crazy is that the world is letting this continue on a daily basis. I think bombing is bad and doesn't help Israel. Having said that it is by no means worse. Israel doesn't carpet bomb. Israel uses accurate ammunition's and the Hamas's numbers were often shown as lies, without external objective verification this can't be trusted. Israel tracks mobile phones in Gaza and bombs areas with the minimal amount of civilian presence to minimize the damage to civilians. In fact, it threw an amount of bombs that is unprecedented on a relatively small area. Yet the number of deaths is still relatively low when taken into consideration. Notice that during all of these bombings the Hamas keeps firing missiles and sending drones. It's still holding 200+ hostages many of which are children and elderly. If it wanted to stop this they could surrender, release some of the hostages etc. They specifically made a choice to put the people of Gaza in harms way, Israel is trying to fight these EVIL monsters who have complete disregard to human life. > Apply these criteria to all sides. I do. I'm 100% for a two state solution and I'm 100% on board with blaming Israel for the things it did wrong. It's part in f*ing up the Oslo accord, the settlements etc. It did many things wrong and keeps doing these things (cutting off the water, bombing to this extent etc.). But the Hamas must be destroyed completely, both for Israel and the Palestinian people. As long as it exists we can't move forward. > > There's justified grievances to have against Israel (especially the current administration which is downright criminal), but this should be a footnote after the blame on the Hamas.
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> A footnote, why? Because Arab blood is much cheaper for you than Israeli one? Specially that civilian's death toll is much higher on their side.
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> That's a barbaric statement. You made that statement. I said it's a footnote because the Hamas is pure evil. Israel is more complex. The Hamas must be destroyed for the Palestinians sake. They have complete disregard to the lives of Palestinians just as they are murderous towards Jews. Many arabs and beduin who lived in that area tried to help the people killed by the Hamas and many of them paid with their lives. The Hamas just kills with no distinction. Did Israel do bad things as a country. Yes. But so did the PLO. Yet, both can be reasoned with and have redeeming qualities. The Hamas has no such qualities. As a liberal and a humanist I don't say this often, but there are a few cases where you run across pure evil. The Hamas is one of those cases. It's a cancer on the Palestinian people. The people supporting it from the outside are useful idiots in its service. |