[dj_mc_merlin]

Well, 90% of the people in my office are immigrants. Pretty productive. Obviously however software engineering has been a very immigrant-heavy industry in Europe for a long time. There's just not enough German software engineers to work the huge capital that it has.

When looking at more common jobs, it's quite hard to find a German when you pass by any construction site. In fact, I can speak to a good amount of the workers in my native language.

[incahoots]

>software engineering has been a very immigrant-heavy industry in Europe for a long time

For those unaware, this is commonplace for various industries in the US. The H1B Visa program is a grind-house for companies like FAANG, and I imagine the EU and other European nations have taken note to utilize the same policy.

[jonp888]

The EU system is much simpler than the chicanery of the US system of quotas and multiple visa categories.

If there is an EU citizen applicant suitable for the job, they get it. If there isn't, anyone can.

[incahoots]

Than goodness for that. It's a lotto on the stateside for certain which is incredibly tone deaf, but not surprising considering how the rest of our labor force is exploited at nearly every turn.

[thefounder]

>> Obviously however software engineering has been a very immigrant-heavy industry in Europe for a long time.

That's news to me. Even in London is not that immigrant heavy unless you consider the Europeans immigrants.

[dj_mc_merlin]

I do. I immigrated from my country => I'm an immigrant.

If I were to count only people from the Middle East, Africa and Asia as immigrants, probably closer to 35%.

[thefounder]

>> I immigrated from my country => I'm an immigrant.

That's not really the case within the EU at least it's not black and white. You have the same rights as the "native" population. What makes you an immigrat? People in the U.S don't say they immigrate when they move from one state to another...they just move and I think that's the case with the EU as well.

[dj_mc_merlin]

> What makes you an immigrant?

* I didn't speak the language when I moved here. I do now, but I still have a heavy accent that immediately tells everyone I wasn't born here.

* People still casually discriminate against me. I apply with a (fake) German name to apartments. Obviously I use my real name when I meet them and sign the documents, but it has helped me get the foot in the door many times before.

* I did go to school in Germany, and those are the the only Germans I'm friends with. I've made friends with other immigrants, but German society is much harder to break into.

* I can't vote in elections (which is fair, to be clear).

* While I understand German culture now, I don't understand it like a German does. It's kind of hard to quantify the impact of this but while I can understand what's expected of me and why people act in certain ways, it still feels like doing a dance rather than a mutual shared understanding.

All that said.. I feel pretty at place here. Living somewhere for a long time tends to do that. But you still never get over the feeling that you're some guy living in a place, rather than being of that place. It's more of a 50/50.. sometimes you feel as if you've always been there, and sometimes as if you just came that day.

[thefounder]

The discrimination is a different issue and depends by many factors.

It's true that you can't vote in national elections but you can vote on local elections[0].

Usually you need just 5 years(on most EU countries)to get the citizenship to able to have this remaining right vote on national elections.

Now my question to you is: are you still an immigrant after you get the citizenship? What's different?

[0] "Every citizen of the Union has the right to vote and to stand as a candidate at municipal elections in the EU country in which he or she resides under the same conditions as nationals of that country."

[dj_mc_merlin]

The discrimination is because I'm an immigrant. If I was German, it would not happen. How is it a different issue?

> are you still an immigrant after you get the citizenship?

Yes. Because I immigrated here rather than being born.

[incahoots]

Hopefully you're doing well. Leaving your home country takes a toll I imagine.

[dj_mc_merlin]

Left more than a decade ago so Germany feels like home now. Adjusting took a couple years, German culture was difficult to understand. Doing very well now, thank you for the comment.

[hef19898]

Ah, the not-that-kind-of-foreigner, racist way of counting! Some people love to do that, don't they?

[f6v]

It is in Berlin, my last software job didn’t have any German developers. That’s how it is in startups. Of course, it’s going to be the opposite in a small town.

[AdamN]

Nobody on my team is German and I'm American. We are in Berlin.

[anonyfox]

All engineers in my company are immigrants, and the official work language is english. Located in Hamburg, serving nearly exclusively German customers.