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by thaumasiotes 975 days ago
> Hundreds of years ago, the Japanese language included words for only four basic colors: black, white, red, and blue. If you wanted to describe something green, you’d use the word for blue—“ao”—and that system worked well enough until roughly the end of the first millennium, when the word “midori” (originally meaning “sprout”) began showing up in writing to describe what we know as green.

There's something going on here that the article doesn't explain.

The new word is written 緑, which is also [the Japanese simplified spelling of] the Chinese word that means green in specific. But the Chinese word has always referred to a color, and it's never meant "sprout" -- the shuowen jiezi, written 800 years before the period the article indicates, defines it "帛靑黃色也"!

So by the time this word is being written down, there is no sense of the concept "sprout" at all.

The article seems to present this as a case of conceptual innovation internal to Japanese, which would have been much cooler than the apparent reality of the Japanese starting to use an already well-established concept more often.

Now I want to know why, if midori originally meant "sprout", it does not seem to have the spelling 芽 ("sprout" - 萌芽也) as a possibility...?

2 comments

As far as I can tell from Wiktionary (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%B7%91#Japanese), though I don't speak Japanese, the Japanese word midori has had the meaning "bud" or "sprout", but the Chinese words written with the same character don't. Spelling and word identity are distinct. This confuses me sometimes when looking up Japanese words.
> Spelling and word identity are distinct.

What I'm saying is:

1. If "midori" began with the meaning "sprout", then...

2. its spelling in early texts should have been 芽 [sprout] and not 綠 [green].

The spellings were fixed a long time before the article identifies the change as taking place.

The Japanese spelling of a word must develop by either (1) the Japanese borrowing a Chinese word with the meaning of the Japanese word; (2) option #1, but the Japanese meaning of the word later shifts; (3) option #1, but the Japanese spelling of the word later shifts [this would be weird]; (4) indigenous innovation of a character; or (5) refusal to use a character at all.

"Midori" appears to have begun its life by being spelled as if it meant "green" and to have continued to mean "green" since that time. This is strange if it originally meant "sprout", and I'd like to know more about the claim and the history.

Ah, I see, I misread your comment quite badly. I don't have any references to look this up in, but perhaps the ancestor of the word midori is first attested in a syllabic spelling in Old Japanese with only the meaning "sprout", and when it came to be spelled logographically as 綠, it was mainly used with the meaning "green". But the question could be asked in the Tea Room of Wiktionary, where it would probably find its way to someone more knowledgeable than me.
That explanation seems wrong to me, when you refer to sprout like things i.e. spring leaves on trees you use 青葉 - blue leaves.

https://kotobank-jp.translate.goog/word/%E9%9D%92%E8%91%89-2...