[anon291]

The west used to be much more collectivist. Christianity as it's been practiced for most of history is a collective religion. The rise of individualism corresponds to the rise of atheism and agnosticism and 'nones' in the west.

[redserk]

Are you able to back this up? American individualism has existed for multiple generations, well before the rise of acceptance for atheism/agnosticism/“Nones”.

[rayiner]

Americans have always had an individualist streak, fueled by Protestant Christianity, the cultural influence of Appalachia, and cultural diversity. The communitarian parts of Christianity held that somewhat in check. But as even that falls away, america has become hyper-individualized and morality has become almost completely personalized.

[lapcat]

> the cultural influence of Appalachia

That's an incredible stretch.

There are a number of other factors worth mentioning:

- The philosophy of John Locke, who greatly influenced the founders

- The US is a very new country, compared to those in Europe and Asia. The only preexisting culture was the Native Americans, and you (should) know what happened to them...

- The US is a nation of immigrants who left (sometimes voluntarily, sometimes involuntarily) their previous countries and cultures.

- The US is geographically very large and open. Even within the nation of immigrants, there was a huge amount of migration to populate "the west".

- The US has a very weak central government, by design of the Constitution, and it never had a state church. There's no centralizing cultural force.

[rayiner]

> That's an incredible stretch.

The culture of Appalachia—specifically, the Scots-Irish—has been tremendously influential in America: https://reason.com/2005/07/01/the-fighting-scots-irish-2. It is deeply wrapped up in frontier culture, interestingly because Scots-Irish were encouraged to migrate to that land to serve as a buffer against the Indians.

[diogenescynic]

‘Albion’s Seed’ explores this and it’s really fascinating. You can definitely see the imprint those groups left.

This article is a good starter for explaining how the Puritan, Quaker, Cavalier, and Scots—Irish each shaped our cultural identity: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/04/books/review/joe-klein-ex...

[lapcat]

From the very link that you cite: "Webb's book, though well-written and often insightful, is more an exercise in ethnic self-mythologizing than an evenhanded attempt to judge the impact of the Scots-Irish and their culture on America."

[rayiner]

The complete paragraph indicates a different tone:

> But the Scots-Irish impact on American politics is more problematic than Webb would have us believe. The populist politics they pioneered doesn't necessarily produce the sort of values that sustain liberty. Indeed, the democratic impulse toward comfort and safety often undercuts self-reliance and individualism. Webb's book, though well-written and often insightful, is more an exercise in ethnic self-mythologizing than an evenhanded attempt to judge the impact of the Scots-Irish and their culture on America.

My reading of the article is that the author agrees with Webb that "the Scots-Irish impact" on America was large. The point of disagreement is whether that influence was as positive as Webb says, or whether it was "more problematic than Webb would have us believe."

[lotsofpulp]

Surely, the biggest factor is women’s financial freedom.

Even in the Asian countries lauded for collectivism, I would bet it is women’s civil rights and financial freedom that is changing the situation from collectivist to individualist.

Which makes sense to me since it is probably easier to keep a society collectivist if half the population has little choice.

[anon291]

> The US is a very new country, compared to those in Europe and Asia. The only preexisting culture was the Native Americans, and you (should) know what happened to them...

Forming a new country does not mean abandoning the parent culture. American society is still feeling the influence of the British empire.

> The US is geographically very large and open. Even within the nation of immigrants, there was a huge amount of migration to populate "the west".

This is certainly true, but I'd also venture that a lot of these western pioneers had more solid 'friends' that they could depend than a solid portion of Americans today.

> The US has a very weak central government, by design of the Constitution, and it never had a state church. There's no centralizing cultural force.

This is to America's advantage. In fact, a strong central government is often at odds with community mindedness, which is what we find in most left-wing enclaves (this is my opinion). In his book Democracy in America, de Tocqueville, writes:

"Americans of all ages, all stations of life and all types of disposition are forever forming associations. There are not only commercial and industrial associations in which all take part, but others of a thousand types-religious, moral, serious, futile, very general and very limited, immensely large and very minute."

"Finally, if they want to proclaim a truth or propagate some feeling ...they form an association. In every case, at the head of any new undertaking, where in France you would find the government ... in the United States you are sure to find an association."

[1] https://www.crf-usa.org/election-central/de-tocqueville-amer...

[anon291]

> American individualism has existed for multiple generations

Can you back this up? Because a review of historic American literature would make our modern age of hyper-individualism 'self-help', etc, seem like a completely foreign culture.

[hollerith]

Societies tend towards an organizing principle, and liberty has been the organizing principle of the US since its founding no less than the interests of the German race was the organizing principle for the Third Reich and anti-capitalism was the organizing principle of the Soviet Union.

(Democracy was seen by the founders as way to protect liberty more than liberty was seen as a way to protect democracy.)

"Don't tread on me," was a slogan of the American revolution. Ditto, "give me liberty or give me death." For many decades, drug addiction raged in the US while heroin and cocaine remained legal because a Federal law against the free trade in these drugs was seen as an unconstitutional curtailment of the individual's liberty. The starting of a Federal income tax was likewise held up for decades on the same argument.

Again, liberty has been the main organizing principle of the US since its founding, and I'd be a little surprised to learn that there are Americans with IQs above 110 that do not know that, but I guess some people are too busy to learn about history and politics.