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by Mayzie 973 days ago
You can’t survive or support a family with a single income these days.. It’s required for both partners to work.
6 comments

Exactly.

Manufacturing jobs used to exist.

Manufacturing jobs used to exist in high numbers.

Manufacturing jobs that didn’t require a high school education existed in high numbers.

Manufacturing jobs that paid well and provided a pension and didn’t require high education existed in high numbers.

You absolutely can. Our family does and many of my friends do. They aren’t all wealthy people.

It isn’t always a choice, but often it is. Many people can live on one income but choose a lifestyle that requires two.

Do you live in an area with high international demand for housing?

Not all of the US is a hot spot for high paid immigrants, yet. Displacement is a real thing. Not everyone can change states or nations to make the finances work out.

Don’t let the reality that this was in response to a statement that implied a universal reality that it’s impossible to raise a family on a single income be lost on you.

I’m the sole breadwinner, my wife and I have six kids, and I don’t make fantastic money for being a developer ($60,000/year- took a haircut for this role for the 100% work from home). We make it work.

there is a hair in your comment that probably should not be there...
no, haircut is now a phrase that doesn't only apply to hair due to the flexibility of human language =)
Luckily in the US you can choose to live wherever you want. If you’re priced out of a neighborhood, you can choose to live somewhere else.

You can also choose how many and why type of cars to have, what food to eat, how much to spend on vacations, etc.

Hell, you can even choose where and what you do for work! What a country!

Many people will choose higher spending power with two incomes rather than take a step down to live on one.

You are agreeing in a weird way. Yes, in America if you live somewhere that other people want to live, then you have to move or take on two incomes. That was my point, that because US real estate has become an attractive investment over the past decades and the growth and current size foreign capital outweighs the average American family’s purchasing power which results in: people resort to two incomes, wait to start families, have fewer children when they do have children, etc…
I am not sure how it is in US but sharing a bit from my perspective (living in EU):

The (mental) cost of moving is sometimes hard. Here are only two main things:

- you lose your support system (friends, family)

- you lose your time (and maybe cost) saving tricks/knowledge (where to go to buy things, medicine, …)

All these are not impossible to solve but they are way harder for single parent family.

You are free to live any where but most people live near jobs. Great rhat you can get a 10k house in Detroit… bad cause there are no jobs.
> bad cause there are no jobs.

Yet Detroit's unemployment rate is 3.8%. For comparison, New York's unemployment rate is 4.6% and San Francisco's unemployment rate is 4.0%.

> You can also choose how many and why type of cars to have

See that's an interesting example. In most places in the US[^1] you have no realistic choice but to have at least 1 car per adult in the household. That's not quite the full extend of choice for "how many cars" one would wish for.

> what food to eat

Have you heard of "food deserts"?

[^1] this is false in a few places that were not bulldozed in the 1960s and still allow for non-car centric life. These places tend to have very high cost of living because they're desirable.

A few years back when I worked in a downtown office in a suburban metro, my wife would often drop me off/pick me up and then she'd have the car all day. Other times I'd bike. When only one person works outside the home, you have more flexibility.

We also lived in what was barely not a food desert at that time, and we walked to the grocery store all the time. "Food desert" can mean it takes 10 minutes to walk to the store. Like for a low income urban census tract it means 0.5 miles. We go on afternoon walks 3-5x that every day.

Been doing it for more than 15 years.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

You certainly can, but going by the numbers most people can’t.
>can't

Won't. Some can't, but we can't tell how many.

In what sense? Where are the people starving to death? Most people seem to be able to do just fine on zero incomes.
Can’t see the goalposts anymore, where are they?
>>>> You can’t survive or support a family with a single income these days.
The issue for most is likely student loans impacting buying power.
To be fair, this is mostly a consequence of women entering the workforce. Not that that’s bad, but it’s an unintended consequence that companies were then able to convince workers to work for less because people could survive on it still.
Yeah see I think that’s part of the wealth being sucked into the 0.1%
This assumes they competed for the same jobs, is that true ?

Why didn’t women entering the workforce lead to growth and more jobs being created ?

Because it’s not about the jobs, it’s about what salary people will settle for.

If a family had to make X to live comfortable before, now you can do so with each of you making half that as long as it adds up to X. People shouldn’t settle for less, but they do even if only a few percent… where before people didn’t to the same degree because it had more immediate impact.

This in turn is one of the several market forces that has contributed to deflated wages.

"To be fair..."

If you leave this out of your response, do you believe that you're still conveying the same message?

I do.

That's an argument that should be increasing the number of dual parent households. If a family could be supported on a single income, then abandoning your family would have fewer consequences and thus seemingly more likely.
No, what you would expect to see is a drastic decrease number in the number of children born. People are choosing not to have families at all.

In late 1960 we peaked with somewhere around 47% of households having children. It is now around 26%

In 1990 the number of married couples in the US started to flatline even though the population is up 40% since then.

You're correct, but that's an orthogonal effect. The cost of raising children is definitely lowering the number of children.

But it also should put pressure on parents to stay together once the children are conceived.

A substantial reason for that is cultural change though. You can’t close to double the supply of something without expecting the price to go down (probably by something close to half).