[hardware2win]

First: drop e2e, unit, etc distinction

It is irrelevant and driven by some testing evangelists

Tests are either quick or slow and may touch external stuff, thats mostly it.

Whats wrong with mocks? If they lead to scenarios where your tests are green, but app doesnt work then it sucks. Ive witnessed projects with all green tests but app wasnt even waking.

[swalsh]

I think there is an evolution developers go through. Right around the "design pattern" stage where everything is decoupled, hinges for all parts. Devs seem to focus on the test coverage value. Both these attributes stem from the same failure to understand the underlying business. The model rarely reflects the actual business needs (usually because the dev spends more time reading about, and thinking about tech as opposed to understanding the business) they use flexibility in the codebase as a fallback because gee the business can be anything. Code coverage equally fails because they only think about their code. Sometimes the most useful thing is a business case that was never thought about. It's code that doesn't exist. Perfect code coverage won't tell you anything about code you haven't written.

I'd rather spend time trying to learn the business, and where it's going, and why my product is useful, than mocking out some dumb part I can test a few times manually. Unit tests are super valuable tool, but not everything needs a unit test.

[throwaway2990]

People downvoting you don’t do testing and are upset.

[ahoka]

They test mocks.